RE: [asa] Who's to blame for the lost ones?

David said:
"Did the person who found his YECism shattered and gave up on
Christianity altogether really trust in and encounter the person of
Christ? Or was his faith only in a set of propositions?"

It is like my struggle. I know Christ as well as any born-again
Christian. Yet, I also pretty much accepted that there was a first
human named Adam. Since accepting evolution, I think it makes sense to
drop a literal first human named Adam. The problem is, the Bible treats
this Adam guy really seriously, even putting him into geneologies. I
almost fell-away, but at times am still teetering on the edge. I'm
still studying. I'm considering it may be impossible to reconcile
evolution with Christianity, esp. after reading the latest ASA
Perspectives article called "Optimistic Evolutionists: The Progressive
Science and religion of Joseph LeConte, Henry Ward Beecher, and Lyman
Abbott."

It is like what I learned in my seminary class- Darwinism is a universal
acid that eats away at everything (philosophical and theological)...

If I fall away, it would be because Christianity, and the Bible, don't
make sense in light of evolution. It sounds scary to say, but I am
determined to follow the truth wherever it leads. I have faith in
Christ, but my theology is very liquid at this point.

...Bernie

________________________________

From: David Opderbeck [mailto:dopderbeck@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:41 AM
To: Bill Hamilton
Cc: j burg; Dehler, Bernie; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Who's to blame for the lost ones?

Bill, you make what I think is a very helpful point here, one which many
folks often make: our faith is centrally about Christ. I wonder if the
"blame" isn't so much on any particular view of origins as it is on a
highly rationalist version of the faith elevates certain propositions,
including but not least about scripture, above the person of Christ.
Did the person who found his YECism shattered and gave up on
Christianity altogether really trust in and encounter the person of
Christ? Or was his faith only in a set of propositions?

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Bill Hamilton
<williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> wrote:

Burgy wrote

> Glenn Morton has made the claim many times that it is the YECs who are
> to blame, along with those in the church who swallow their stuff. He
> has at least strong anecdotal evidence to back his claim.

I certainly agree with Glenn that YECism can be a factor in an
individual departing from the faith. (As a former Arminian I cannot
agree with the Calvinist accusation that Arminians believe one can
_lose_ his faith. In the Wesleyan church I came to know the Lord in we
believed that an individual could willfully depart from the faith. But
_lose_ it? Never)

But my own experience might serve as a counterexample. I encountered
YECism shortly after I became a Christian. I decided to investigate it
and believed it for a time. But I soon discovered a number of flaws in
it. At that point I had to make a decision, and I decided that no matter
what I believed about creationism, I believed in Jesus Christ, my
savior.

William E. (Bill) Hamilton, Ph.D. Member ASA
248.821.8156 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
http://www.bricolagia.blogspot.com/
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----- Original Message ----
> From: j burg <hossradbourne@gmail.com>
> To: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> Sent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 11:31:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Who's to blame for the lost ones?
>

> On 6/4/08, Dehler, Bernie wrote: (in part)
>
> > Imagine this, you hear a report at church that 10 kids accepted
Christ
> > in the 3rd grade Sunday School. Everyone claps.>
> > Fast forward 10 years, and you hear that the kid who entered college
> > just left the faith because they now believe in evolution.>
> > Who's to blame, the evolutionist who is teaching the lie of
evolution,
> > or the church who says that evolution is a lie?
> >>
> Glenn Morton has made the claim many times that it is the YECs who are
> to blame, along with those in the church who swallow their stuff. He
> has at least strong anecdotal evidence to back his claim.
>
> I have but one example -- a high school close friend who was a
> witnessing Christian whem I was not -- who lost his faith in college
> when he found out the YEC stuff he believed was wrong. Dick went on to
> a career as an executive with Pitney Bowles (sp?) and is now retired,
> living in Florida, a confirmed atheist.
>
> I think (and pray) for him on occasion. Sad.
>
> > I'm thinking more about this because I'm offering to teach a class
at
> > church, and am anticipating the push-back... I think there is a
faction
> > that wants to keep everyone in slumber.
> >
> I hope you are successful. I have taught such a class several times
> (see my web site for material). On the last occasion the regular
> teacher was (and probably is) a YEC. But she was willing to at least
> give me equal time (three weeks).
>

> Burgy
>
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-- 
David W. Opderbeck
Associate Professor of Law
Seton Hall University Law School
Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology 
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