Bertvan:
>> If someone wants to define science as
>>excluding the "supernatural", they must exclude free will,
>>spontaneity, and creativity. I am convinced they all exist as
>>a part of reality. However
>>all three are at the present time"supernatural" in that science has no
>>explanation for them - no way to measure or define them.
Bill:
>Agreed. Supernatural stuff is not less real than hard science, it is
>analyzed by different rules.
>Spontaneity and creativity are observable even if not physically
>measurable.
>I can't think of any observable characteristics for free will. Why do you
>classify
>it with spontaneity and creativity? Is not what people call free will
>actually what we observe as spontaneity? Isn't free will primarially a
>religious presupposition?
Hi Bill,
If we are going to divide the universe up into scientific realities and
religious realities, I suppose free will might be classified as a "religious
presupposition". In that case, some people might decide they are more
religious than they realized. As an agnostic, I'll accept that definition
and classify my agnosticism as a religion. Wouldn't atheism also qualify as
a religion if belief in the existence or non existence of free will is
classified as a "religious presupposition"? While some people seem to
regard their "free will" as an illusion, others are convinced, from personal
observation, that the choices they make are real. If free will does exist,
it plays a part in the physical world. Bio feed back and the placebo effect
are examples of ways free will has bee observed to interact with the world of
molecules and physical forces. I'm not sure I would even distinguish between
free will, creativity, and spontaneity. But you and I might have different
definitions of these last two. Perhaps you define creativity and spontaneity
as accidental events, with out plan, purpose, or design. I distinguish
between accidents and free will/spontaneity/creativity - and the latter
always includes intelligence and purpose (by my definition). What do you
think?
Bertvan
http://members.aol.com
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