Dear Shuan,
I agree that a theology of creation that is explicitly biblical in expression is needed, but I would add to that the fact that many good theological expositions are not larded with references to passages of Scripture, and this is true of recent creation theologies; I would include Howard Van Till's among them. Outside of ASA members, quite a few people are working on theologies of creation. One of the interesting developments to my mind is the recovery of a Trinitarian theology of creation. Among evangelicals Jurgen Moltmann has done this, in _God in Creation_ and other writings; among Roman Catholics Denis Edwards, a disciple of Karl Rahner, in _The God of Evolution: A Trinitarian Theology. Others working in or writing on theology of creation and evolution include Nancey Murphy, Arthur Peacocke, Ted Peters, Wolfhart Pannenberg, Ian Barbour, and there are several others. There are quite a few people representating a variety of Catholic, Anglican, and Protestant (including evangelical) perspectives.
I'm aware of how important it is for Christians to see the Bible in their theologies, and especially for those Christians who want you to "show me where it is in the Bible." But theology is rational reflection on the content of revelation, and it always goes beyond the biblical text to develop its implications in the light of nature and human experience. Part of the task is not only to help Christian learn how to read and interpret the Bible intelligently, but to learn and understand what role theology plays in the articulation of faith. I think there are many Christians who love and depend on the Bible but have hardly even a rudimentary knowledge and understanding of theology. That vacuum can lead to great misunderstandings or ignorances of basic Christian doctrine. I was astonished, for example, to discover how many of the conservative and fundamentalist college students in my "Science and Faith" course, most of whom would have classified themselves as YECs, were Gnostics (though they didn't know it). I had to introduce them to the doctrine of the Incarnation and its implications for understanding Christ and creation, because it was clear many of them had no real grasp of it.
I think YEC flourishes because its proponents are very effective at marketing their product and putting down the product they are trying to outsell. There are a lot of voices who speak a different language of God and creation, and we who speak this language need to find ways to get the message out without playing their game.
Bob Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: Shuan Rose
To: Robert Schneider ; asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: A matter of trust?(Or why YEC persists)
Dear Bob,
I I agree.Moreover,debunking YECism is only half of what needs to be done.I think that the real need is to produce and proclaim a solid, consistent, biblically based theology of creation that incorporates evolution as the best scientific explanation for the diversity of life. Now, I know that Howard, Dick, and George have produced such theologies.The problem seems to be getting the word out. Unfortunately, YEC is like the storm and ASA is like the still, small voice.
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Robert Schneider
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 6:02 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: A matter of trust?(Or why YEC persists)
Last week, I got a message from a colleague at Berea College that the local chapter of Chi Alpha, the Assemblies of God campus Christian group and the YEC outpost there (they have been cultivated by Answers in Genesis), held a "Creation Week." A local YEC gave a lecture one night, and a filmed lecture by the famous Kent Hovind was shown each other night. Only a few students showed up for the first film (all Chi Alpha members) and there were half as many faculty (a couple of whom had Googled Hovind and came armed). My colleague reported that following the showing the students and faculty had a frank and friendly discussion, "but," he said, "I felt like I was talking to a stone."
I don't think it is possible to bring an end to YECism through compelling evidence, reason, and argument, as has been pointed out here recently. What any good response to it may be able to do is to enlighten those not yet brainwashed, who might still be open enough to learn what evolution really is, what YEC really is, and what the Bible really has to say about creation. That is why I keep on talking and writing, not to convince the YECs, but those listening in.
Bob Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: Shuan Rose
To: Jim Eisele ; asa@calvin.edu
Cc: dawsonzhu@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: RE: A matter of trust?(Or why YEC persists)
Hi Jim,
I agree with much of your post (Yes, we can agree!). However, I think the biggest blame lies not not on the seminaries, but on church leaders and church members who grew up with YEC and who are comfortable with it. They then surround themselves with likeminded folks, and so they don't understand how wacky their ideas appear to the outside world. Athiests who disagree with them are of course blinded by Satan, and Christians who disagree are " liberal apostates", "Judases", "so called Christians", etc. I think the biggest reasoon why YECism exists is the Argument from Personal Comfort-this contradicts my simple, literalistic interpretation of the Bible and so I won't even consider the evidence for evolution or an Old Earth-or if I do, I want mathematic proof.
A second reason is that, lets face it, like so much of science, the theory of evolution is counter intuitive. Can Homo Sapiens -the species that builds skyscrapers and sends people to the Moon- really be closely related to chimpanzees? And could humans possibly be related to that fish that I see staring up from my plate? It sometimes boggles even my mind, and I believe in evolution!
So the second reason why YECism will persist is the Argument from Personal Incredulity-this can't possibly be true!They breed dogs and dogs, and the result is dogs!
While I wish you luck with your Web Site, I expect Yecism to persist and even grow. You should realise that there are already many anti YEC sites and discussion groups, starting with the ASA site.If you check the talk.origins links list page, you will find many more.They have been unable to put a dent in Yecism. However, fight the good fight! If you can't stop 'em, at least you can slow 'em down. And please post a link to your new site when it goes up.
,.
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Jim Eisele
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 7:09 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Cc: dawsonzhu@aol.com
Subject: Re: A matter of trust?
Wayne writes
>When the foundations
>of the six day creation crumbled, the rest of the faith
>gradually died with it.
Thanks for the contribution, Wayne. Earlier in your note
you mentioned that none of us has a right to insist on our
interpretation. I'll take this a five steps further.
A) YECs greatly fear the truth. How much denial do you
think Henry Morris is in?
B) When one examines the truth, one tends to get convicted.
Far easier to question the motivation of the person
providing the truth.
C) I put the blame squarely on seminaries. Do they make an
honest effort to discuss all sides, and let the truth
prevail? God help them if they don't.
D) Even if interpretations differ, we can all learn from
each other, and be strengthened by each other.
E) The greatest sins, IMHO, are pride and arrogance. Pride
is too much for me to tackle. Arrogance says "Let me
show you where you're wrong" A better approach is, well,
for starters, how about reading the OT? It's all about
Jewish people and their history. The length of creation
is one-two pages out of about eleven hundred. When I
read the OT, I was infuriated at everything being left
out of the Sunday pulpit (my last post about the 70 weeks
to Messiah prophecy being a prime example). A "day" is not
always 24 hours. If you have knowledge of the OT, taking
that position (what should we call this) is truth suppression.
Jim
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