Just speaking purely on the issue of pain here, (and speaking as a
neuroscientist) I think that it is important to realize that pain per se
serves many useful functions. Without it, we would be much worse off. How
would you know you were in danger? If something that was dangerous to you
didn't hurt, how would you know to get away? The components of the CNS that
detect pain are some of the most primitive - indicating they are really
important to keep around. From the perspective of evolution, pain circuits
are phylogenetically in the oldest/earliest part of the brain. You have
reflex neural circuits built in to your limbs, such that if pain is
detected, the signal doesn't have to go as far for processing - that limb
automatically withdraws.
My point is that we would have a great deal of trouble existing without
physical pain.
Other types of "pain" are also very important, and also still part of the
limbic system (more primitive than the neocortex). Antonio Damasio and
Antoine Bechara have written extensively about what they call their "somatic
marker" hypothesis, which is critically involved in reward-based decision
making. The most famous case of course being Phineas Gage, who went from
being a very good man to being a drunkard, lout, cheating on his wife,
cursing, etc., because of brain damage. He was no longer able to detect the
"pain" associated with poor decisions that had repercussions in the future -
especially with regard to abstract concepts.
(As an aside, wasn't there something about a neuroscience-related edition of
PSCF later this year? Could someone send me that again?)
Now, on the broader issue of theodicy, while it may not be as comforting as
we wish to understand that free will to make choices is critically
important, I still think it is critically important. This is why original
sin, and Genesis, are critically important to me, and why I care so much
about concordism. Without the fall of man, where are we? There really is no
good answer to the question of theodicy without it. This is evident from the
multiple attempts to deal with it in "Perspectives on an Evolving Creation"
- none of which seemed to be completely satisfactory, even to the authors.
Original sin affects all of mankind, and all of nature - the environment,
and genetics. This unfortunately means that not all children are born
viable, some are born with birth defects, and some die untimely deaths.
There is evil present on the face of the earth, this is the dominion of
Satan.
It has always helped me to look at our life here as a training ground to
learn. It's not necessarily pleasant. It can be, but not always. But
critically, it is very short. *very*. No matter if you live one day, or 100
years - there's not a great deal of difference with regard to just time. But
when you are given time to make choices, the choices you make can have a
profound impact, on yourself, as well as others. I can't tell you how many
times I have seen the sinful choices of others reflected in the cursed life
of my patients.thousands of times. Daily.
Live every day as if it was your last, and choose wisely, because your
choices affect not only you, but those around you - for generations. There
is a popular Christian song out now that reflects this very well - "Slow
Fade" by Casting Crowns.
God bless,
JP
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Jim Armstrong
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:10 AM
To: ASA
Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
It looks to me like you hit it on the head. Assuming those early Genesis
creation quotations are in reasonable measure correct, then this pretty much
hinges about the definition of "good". I don't recall that there was any
indication of Creation being submitted to man for his appraisal as to its
goodness. And given that I don't subscribe to the idea that a subordinate
being has any power to corrupt that Creation in any significant way (with
respect to His overall creative intent) after the fact, the physical good
and bad as we experience and judge it is just that, our personal experience
and perspective. Hence, the response to the last of Dave's paragraphs would
seem to be "Yes" and "Yes", but the terrible-ness relates only to our sphere
of experience and perspective - being more "uncomfortable" than "terrible"
per se in my view.
Regards - JimA [Friend of ASA].
Dick Fischer wrote:
Hi David:
Certainly I don't have any good answers. I think God cares more for hearts
that are perfect toward Him than He seems to about physical death and
suffering which is simply part of life.
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
-----Original Message-----
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:13 PM
To: Dick Fischer
Cc: ASA
Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
Dick,
Its a very good question. Does God allow us to be born even though He
knows something horrible will affect our lives and make us miserable.
Its the "problem of pain" all over again.
Did God cause all this pain? If so, is He still good? Seems to me
this question is something we all have to deal with.
If God allows pain is He good. If by allowing it He causes it, is He
still good? Terrible questions, aren't they?
-Dave
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Dick Fischer
<mailto:dickfischer@verizon.net> <dickfischer@verizon.net>
wrote:
I hope he didn't have Down's Syndrome.
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of David Clounch
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:50 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
Yesterday a friend was buried. On the card from his service was Psalms
139:13-16.
verse 16 says,
" Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them. " NASV
This Psalm raises an interesting idea. God knew all the details and
design of the man's life long before he was born. And ordained
(pre-planned) his days and fate.
Sounds like design to me.
And I cant see where there is any way any series of natural processes
can produce any such pre-planned creature or detailed days of his
life. Not without massive tinkering and interference with the flow of
natural processes.
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Received on Fri Feb 20 07:31:31 2009
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