Just
speaking purely on the issue of pain here, (and speaking as
a neuroscientist) I think that it is important to realize that pain per
se
serves many useful functions. Without it, we would be much worse off.
How would
you know you were in danger? If something that was dangerous to you
didn’t
hurt, how would you know to get away? The components of the CNS that
detect
pain are some of the most primitive – indicating they are really
important to keep around. From the perspective of evolution, pain
circuits are
phylogenetically in the oldest/earliest part of the brain. You have
reflex
neural circuits built in to your limbs, such that if pain is detected,
the
signal doesn’t have to go as far for processing – that limb
automatically withdraws.
My
point is that we would have a great deal of trouble existing
without physical pain.
Other
types of “pain” are also very important, and
also still part of the limbic system (more primitive than the
neocortex). Antonio
Damasio and Antoine Bechara have written extensively about what they
call their
“somatic marker” hypothesis, which is critically involved in
reward-based decision making. The most famous case of course being
Phineas
Gage, who went from being a very good man to being a drunkard, lout,
cheating
on his wife, cursing, etc., because of brain damage. He was no longer
able to
detect the “pain” associated with poor decisions that had
repercussions in the future – especially with regard to abstract
concepts.
(As
an aside, wasn’t there something about a neuroscience-related
edition of PSCF later this year? Could someone send me that again?)
Now,
on the broader issue of theodicy, while it may not be as
comforting as we wish to understand that free will to make choices is
critically important, I still think it is critically important. This is
why original
sin, and Genesis, are critically important to me, and why I care so
much about
concordism. Without the fall of man, where are we? There really is no
good
answer to the question of theodicy without it. This is evident from the
multiple
attempts to deal with it in “Perspectives on an Evolving Creation”
– none of which seemed to be completely satisfactory, even to the
authors. Original sin affects all of mankind, and all of nature – the
environment,
and genetics. This unfortunately means that not all children are born
viable,
some are born with birth defects, and some die untimely deaths. There
is evil
present on the face of the earth, this is the dominion of Satan.
It
has always helped me to look at our life here as a training
ground to learn. It’s not necessarily pleasant. It can be, but not
always. But critically, it is very short. *very*. No matter if
you live
one day, or 100 years – there’s not a great deal of difference with
regard to just time. But when you are given time to make choices, the
choices
you make can have a profound impact, on yourself, as well as others. I
can’t
tell you how many times I have seen the sinful choices of others
reflected in
the cursed life of my patients…thousands of times. Daily.
Live
every day as if it was your last, and choose wisely,
because your choices affect not only you, but those around you – for
generations.
There is a popular Christian song out now that reflects this very well
– “Slow
Fade” by Casting Crowns.
God
bless,
JP
It looks to me like you hit it on the head.
Assuming those
early Genesis creation quotations are in reasonable measure correct,
then this
pretty much hinges about the definition of "good". I don't recall
that there was any indication of Creation being submitted to man for
his
appraisal as to its goodness. And given that I don't subscribe to the
idea that
a subordinate being has any power to corrupt that Creation in any
significant
way (with respect to His overall creative intent) after the fact, the
physical good
and bad as we experience and judge it is just that, our personal
experience and
perspective. Hence, the response to the last of Dave's paragraphs would
seem to
be "Yes" and "Yes", but the terrible-ness relates only to
our sphere of experience and perspective - being more "uncomfortable"
than "terrible" per se in my view.
Regards - JimA [Friend of ASA].
Dick Fischer wrote:
Hi David:
Certainly I don't have any good answers. I think God cares more for hearts
that are perfect toward Him than He seems to about physical death and
suffering which is simply part of life.
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
-----Original Message-----
From: David Clounch [mailto:david.clounch@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:13 PM
To: Dick Fischer
Cc: ASA
Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
Dick,
Its a very good question. Does God allow us to be born even though He
knows something horrible will affect our lives and make us miserable.
Its the "problem of pain" all over again.
Did God cause all this pain? If so, is He still good? Seems to me
this question is something we all have to deal with.
If God allows pain is He good. If by allowing it He causes it, is He
still good? Terrible questions, aren't they?
-Dave
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>
wrote:
I hope he didn't have Down's Syndrome.
Dick Fischer, GPA president
Genesis Proclaimed Association
"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
www.genesisproclaimed.org
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of David Clounch
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:50 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Two questions... (bottlenecking)
Yesterday a friend was buried. On the card from his service was Psalms
139:13-16.
verse 16 says,
" Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them. " NASV
This Psalm raises an interesting idea. God knew all the details and
design of the man's life long before he was born. And ordained
(pre-planned) his days and fate.
Sounds like design to me.
And I cant see where there is any way any series of natural processes
can produce any such pre-planned creature or detailed days of his
life. Not without massive tinkering and interference with the flow of
natural processes.
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