Re: [asa] Romans 1:20

Jon Tandy wrote:
> To take it a different direction, though it's unstated in this snippet you
> quoted, it seems that he's hinting at the fact that this "low style of
> speaking", which causes some souls, "childish and weak", to extract from the
> text certain meanings about the PROCESS, may not be what was intended or
> what actually happened.
>
> For instance, the scripture says God started and finished speaking, and when
> he finished, "there existed what was commanded to exist". But in reality,
> it may be that God started speaking things into existence (like Aslan's song
> in Narnia), and his speech "Let there be..." is still going on. God's
> creative force is continuous, not just a one-time event that terminated in
> the creation of the visible universe. This is a different meaning extracted
> from the text, which Augustine might say was a valid interpretation for
> those who no longer needed to be "nursed" in the "low style of language"
> used by Moses.
>
> Am I reading too much into this, or does this seem to be part of Augustine's
> meaning in the passage?
>
> Jon Tandy
>
I don't purport to be near the authority on Augustine that many others
here probably are, but from my vantage with his "Confessions" fresh in
mind, I would say your second paragraph is very much in line with his
thinking. We may choose to see a not-so-veiled insult in the words
"childish" or "nursed", but he does refuse to maintain that pejorative
view as he goes on to call it a faith "built up in the healthiest
way." It is interesting to try to reflect on how this has bearing on
our relationship with YECs if we imagine them (probably correctly) as
fitting this category. But the vanity of imagining we are "past" all
that also has dangers that would poison our own spirits let alone our
attempts to reach out. Sober reflection and humility have to be
packaged with this. Augustine has ample supply of both.

Regarding your first paragraph above, I'm a bit fuzzier. But my sense
is that Augustine is very much concerned that every valid interpretation
drawn from Moses be considered true. He goes to some pains to discuss
all the possibilities; (you wouldn't believe how many pages he can
spend on the six words: "in the beginning" and "heaven and earth".)
He viewed the myriad of interpretive possibilities as the brilliance of
authorship inspired by God --deliberately allowing for a growth of
understanding while maintaining a connection for the simple. But
Augustine refuses to label any of it as a lesser truth (in fact ALL are
equally truth) if it is drawn by God's Spirit from the Word. If
something proves false, then Augustine would not consider it as being a
valid interpretation -- hence his caution. But I can't imagine him
buying into the warfare mode mentality that is so prevalent today. In
fact he brilliantly anticipates the "new" enlightenment objections. It
is clear why he is highly regarded on this list, not to mention the
Catholic church in general. I can't wait to start "City of God."

--Merv

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of mrb22667@kansas.net
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 9:50 PM
> To: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: [asa] Romans 1:20
>
>
>
> More thoughts on our various approaches to the importance of Scripture:
>
> I'm finally at the end of Augustine's "Confessions" where things are
> starting to get interesting. Here is an excerpt I ran across that has
> bearing.
>
> beginning p. 312 (book 12);
> For just as a spring that rises in a small place is more fertile and with
> its various rivulets supplies a flow of water to a wider area than any one
> of those rivulets which, however far they flow, can be traced back to the
> one source, so the tale told by your appointed Dispenser [Moses], destined
> as it was to benefit so many later commentators takes what meaning he is
> capable of forming in these matters, some one meaning, some another,
> extracting it through various complicated twists of language. Some, when
> they read or hear these words, think that God is like a man, or like some
> physical object endowed with immense power; and that he formed the sudden
> and unprecedented resolution to make two great physical objects, heaven and
> earth, one higher, one lower. These objects were to be outside himself and,
> so to speak, at some spatial distance from himself; and that within them all
> things were to be contained. And when they hear the words, God said, Let
> there be... this or that, they think that his words had beginning and
> ending, that they were pronounced over a period of time and then passed
> away; and that immediately after their passing away there existed what was
> commanded to exist, and so on in this vein, in accordance with the things
> familiar to us in our fleshly life. While such souls are still childish and
> weak, they are nursed at the bosom of this low style of speaking as at their
> mother's breast. Their faith is built up in the healthiest way, enabling
> them to have a sure and fixed belief that it was God who made all the living
> things their senses can behold as they look about themselves, in all their
> wondrous variety. But should some soul disdain what it sees as the low
> style of Moses's words, and in pride and weakness reach out beyond the
> cradle in which it was nursed, then, poor soul! a sad tumble it will have.
> Then, Lord God, have mercy, and let not them that pass by (Lam. 1:12)
> trample on that unfledged chick, but let it live, till it can fly.
>
> <end excerpt>
>
> Here, I think is the sensitivity so beautifully expressed that we should
> have to others in their various, probably faulty, approaches to the perfect
> Word. And
> our own (my own) is also subjected to this judgment. Not that Augustine
> promotes an "anything goes" approach to interpretation. It's obvious he
> despises falsehood and adores Truth. But he can show such patience for
> those
> who cling to simplistic faith! Enough for now... gotta run.
>
> --Merv
>
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Received on Sat Nov 17 10:07:27 2007