Re: [asa] 7 Words You Can't Say in Church WAS ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

I nearly mentioned Darwin today as we sang For all the Saints.
The author Walsham How was an early follower of evolution probably in the 1860s. He was invited to the unveiling of Darwin's statue in Shrewsbury in 1896 but died instead!
The tune was by Ralph Vaughan Williams Darwin's great nephew.

It wouldn't have mattered as none of the 7 would have offended anyone

Michael----- Original Message -----
  From: John Walley
  To: 'Dehler, Bernie' ; asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:10 AM
  Subject: [asa] 7 Words You Can't Say in Church WAS ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

  As a more humorous aside to this very serious issue of the truth not being allowed in most of the evangelical church, a friend of mine who is also a recent TE convert and I came up with this to hopefully help break the ice and get people to start thinking about this.

  NASA scientist and former RTB Apologist Dr. Mark Whorton, author of "Peril in Paradise" will be presenting to the RTB Atlanta Chapter Christmas Party later this month on "Peril in the Pew: The Evolution of an Evolving Creationist" and this came out of our preparation for that.

  Please let me know what you think. J

  John

  7 Words you can't say in Church:

  1. Big Bang

  2. Old Earth

  3. Death before the Fall

  4. Allegorical Genesis

  5. Common Descent

  6. Darwin

  annnnd

  7. Sex

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
  Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 1:03 AM
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Subject: [asa] ORIGINS: pseudogenes are overwhelming evidence for evolution...?

  Hi all-

       I'm new to this group (and ASA), so I hope I'm not bringing up something already discussed in great detail. If so, maybe you can direct me to the log.

       In my recent studies on the origins debate, it seems to me that there is "overwhelming evidence for evolution" via pseudogenes. These are genes present and functional in lower life forms, yet we have messed-up (nonfunctional) copies of them. There are supposed to be thousands of pseudogenes in the human genome. Humans and apes have these messed-up copies, but not lower life-forms. Since we share the messed-up copies with apes, we can't say that it is from the fallen human nature, as apes also have them messed-up while lower lifeforms don't. A prime example is supposed to be ascorbic acid (vitamin c).

       Hugh Ross, in his book "Who was Adam" explains the technical details well, and ends up saying there is no "old earth" response (since old earth is against evolution). no response yet, anyway. Young earther's also don't seem to have a response to this argument.

       It seems to me that we have to accept this evidence for evolution. just as we have accepted evidence from Copernicus/Galileo regarding a heliocentric solar system.

       Question: Is it true there is no serious response from young earthers or old earthers to the claim that pseudogenes are overwhelming proof for evolution?

       Then again, there's also the biological evolutionary evidence based on chromosomes. Humans have one less chromosome than apes, and it can be seen that the reason why is because two ape-like chromosomes have joined into one for human. This joint is obvious. Again, any good young earth or old earth responses?

       Both the pseudogene and chromosome evidence for evolution were cited as evidence by Dr. Francis Collins in his recent book.

       By the way, I'm on the mailing list for Liberty University. They claim there is no compelling evolutionary evidence. Check out this quote:

  Dr. David DeWitt, Liberty University professor of biology, wants to help Christians understand the nature of creationism and teach them how to ably counter mainstream arguments.

  His new book, "Unraveling the Origins Controversy," is a crash course in biblical creationism and examines assumptions on both sides of the origins debate with clear biblical teachings.

  The veteran professor, who is director of Liberty's Center for Creation Studies, notes that there are new scientific findings in terms of the earth's foundations almost every day and Christians need to have a framework for understanding these alleged evolutionary breakthroughs.

  Dr. DeWitt, who recently received a large National Institutes of Health grant to support his Alzheimer's disease research, said, "We live in the same world and use the same facts as evolutionists. We simply use different assumptions and reach creation conclusions."

  Included in Dr. DeWitt's scientific refutation of evolutionary theory, he incorporates Scripture throughout his book to support the science of creationism. He believes the value of his book is that it is written by a scientist who integrates up-to-the-minute findings with a biblical worldview.

  Asked if there is any argument an evolutionist can make that a creationist cannot effectively answer, Dr. DeWitt smiled wryly and offered a simple, "No."

  "We have nothing to worry about in defending our beliefs," he confidently stated.

  .Bernie

  www.sciligion.org

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Received on Sun Nov 4 13:34:33 2007