Re: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up!

Vernon,

Did you actually try to evaluate the _scientific_ evidence that Collins
presents? If so, on what basis do you reject it. If not, then you can
hardly complain that so few people on this list have evaluated your
numerical findings. If you'd for once desist from your continual behaviour
of writing darkly worded posts about how evil is the heart of men that they
can't see a miracle when it's in front of them, thereby antagonising people
(just as Dick is antagonising me with his hate language), then people might
be prepared to take some notice of you.

I am sad to say that there is very little else I can offer you - you offer
me a list of "bad fruits" of evolution. Well, human misconstrual of
anything can give rise to bad fruits. What about apartheid (justified by
citing Noah's curse on Ham), the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the
hate rhetoric you'll find on the Wesboro Baptist Church in Kansas (
www.godhatesfags.com) (example given: "Thank God for AIDS")?

There are plenty of "bad fruits" coming out of peoples abuses of Chistianity
as well.

You have said that evolution is a Satanic deception. I know you are sincere
in that belief, but I think you are deluding yourself and not facing the
evidence. It is therefore ironic that you complain that people won't face
up to the numerical evidence you present.

Have you not considered the possibility that your narrow interpretation of
the Bible might also be a Satanic deception? Even St. Augustine in the 4th
century didn't accept the six days as literal 24 hour periods of time.

Iain

On 7/24/06, Vernon Jenkins <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> Dick,
>
> I've just finished reading "Faith and the Human Genome", and it strikes me
> that what you and Francis Collins have in common is a complete disregard for
> words spoken by the Lord in his 'Sermon on the Mount'. There he warned his
> followers to carefully examine the teaching of any doctrine which threatened
> to _counter_ rather than _confirm_ his gospel message. "By their fruits ye
> shall know them." / "No man can serve two masters."
>
> Writing to Iain just recently, I suggested that evolution fails these
> tests completely - backing up my claim with a selection of its
> anti-christian 'fruits'. You attest to be 'well-educated' and a man of
> 'relevant knowledge'. Let me therefore ask, Where do these significant
> matters fit into your scheme of things? - for I'm sure you would agree with
> me that the words attributed to our Lord, Saviour and Creator must carry
> more weight than all others recorded in the J-C Scriptures.
>
> From what I gather, Jesus Christ was a _creationist_ - even a YEC!! (Lk.16
> :31).
>
> Vernon
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dick Fischer <dickfischer@verizon.net>
> *To:* ASA <asa@calvin.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 24, 2006 8:46 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [asa] AIG -- Scientists! Give it up!
>
> Hi Iain, you wrote:
>
>
>
> >>I disagree totally with your position.<<
>
>
>
> That's what we do on this list.
>
> >>Creationists as paid assassins??? What on earth are you talking about?<<
>
>
>
> Jim Jones fed his congregation spiked Kool-Aid. They drank it and died.
> What kind words can we say about Jim Jones? We can have pity for the duped
> congregation, but Jones was culpable. My indignation is aimed at the ring
> leaders who I'll leave unnamed, but one of them died recently.
>
> >>Yes, they're deluded, I'll agree to that. So was I but I didn't allow
> myself to be for very long.<<
>
>
>
> I have no quarrel with those who because of lack of relevant knowledge get
> caught up in YEC. When they get to heaven, who'll care? It's the untold
> millions who think the Bible is incredible because YECs have sold them the
> same bill of goods – that's who I care for. I was lucky having been saved
> when I was in my forties, well-educated, and not so susceptible to YEC
> propaganda. But I could have lost my new-found faith had I not persevered
> and looked hard for better answers. Many others would have just bailed out
> all together, I almost did.
>
>
>
> >> But I've known a close colleague who was a sincere creationist &
> there's no way I'd call him a charlatan, or a "paid up assassin".<<
>
>
>
> Nor would I. There are probably less than a score of individuals who
> could qualify for a custom-made millstone for their scrawny necks. But God
> is the judge of that, not you or I.
>
>
>
> Dick Fischer
>
> Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
>
> Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
>
> www.genesisproclaimed.org
>

-- 
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