Re: Dick Fisher's "historical basis" remains no less doubtful

David Siemens wrote:

>These are related to questions which I have raised. Dick seems to think
>that Adam's guilt was transferred to all human beings, whether his
>descendants or not. I contend that, if the Fall is so transmitted, then
>redemption must be equally transmitted and we have radical universalism.

While I'm not generally a defender of Dick Fisher's view, I don't
understand why what you say here is true. Redemption is not
transferred to all human beings "by ordinary generation". In
principle, why must the guilt of the Fall? The guilt of Adam's first
sin is imputed to all who are represented by Adam. We traditionally
have said that those who are represented by Adam are all those who
descended from Adam--but in principle it could be a broader group
than that.

We don't say that those who are represented by Christ are those who
descended from Christ--Christ had no physical descendents, DaVinci
Code notwithstanding. The righteousness of Christ is imputed to all
who are represented by Christ--"to everyone who believes" (including
Old Testament believers).

As Christ's representation stretched back before His saving work, why
couldn't Adam's representation stretch back before his fall?

See Derek Kidner's discussion of this possibility in his Genesis
commentary. I quoted it long ago on this list:

http://www.asa3.org/archive/asa/199604/0039.html
http://www.asa3.org/archive/asa/199604/0040.html

Kidner doesn't propose a "back in time" idea but does allow for
representation without physical relatedness. Here's the key sentence:

*...the unity of mankind 'in Adam' and our common status as sinners
through his offence
  are expressed in Scripture in terms not of heredity but simply of
solidarity. We nowhere find applied to us any argument from physical
descent .... Rather, Adam's sin is shown to have implicated all men
because he was the federal head of humanity, somewhat as in Christ's
death 'one died for all, therefore all died' (2 Cor. 5:14). Paternity
plays no part in making Adam 'the figure of him that was to come'
(Rom. 5:14).*

TG

-- 
_________________
Terry M. Gray, Ph.D., Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department, Colorado State University
Fort Collins, Colorado  80523
grayt@lamar.colostate.edu  http://www.chm.colostate.edu/~grayt/
phone: 970-491-7003 fax: 970-491-1801