Re: Dick Fisher's "historical basis" remains no less doubtful

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry M. Gray" <grayt@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Dick Fisher's "historical basis" remains no less doubtful

> David Siemens wrote:
>
>
>>These are related to questions which I have raised. Dick seems to think
>>that Adam's guilt was transferred to all human beings, whether his
>>descendants or not. I contend that, if the Fall is so transmitted, then
>>redemption must be equally transmitted and we have radical universalism.
>
>
> While I'm not generally a defender of Dick Fisher's view, I don't
> understand why what you say here is true. Redemption is not transferred to
> all human beings "by ordinary generation". In principle, why must the
> guilt of the Fall? The guilt of Adam's first sin is imputed to all who are
> represented by Adam. We traditionally have said that those who are
> represented by Adam are all those who descended from Adam--but in
> principle it could be a broader group than that.
>
> We don't say that those who are represented by Christ are those who
> descended from Christ--Christ had no physical descendents, DaVinci Code
> notwithstanding. The righteousness of Christ is imputed to all who are
> represented by Christ--"to everyone who believes" (including Old Testament
> believers).
>
> As Christ's representation stretched back before His saving work, why
> couldn't Adam's representation stretch back before his fall?
>
> See Derek Kidner's discussion of this possibility in his Genesis
> commentary. I quoted it long ago on this list:
>
> http://www.asa3.org/archive/asa/199604/0039.html
> http://www.asa3.org/archive/asa/199604/0040.html
>
> Kidner doesn't propose a "back in time" idea but does allow for
> representation without physical relatedness. Here's the key sentence:
>
> *...the unity of mankind 'in Adam' and our common status as sinners
> through his offence
> are expressed in Scripture in terms not of heredity but simply of
> solidarity. We nowhere find applied to us any argument from physical
> descent .... Rather, Adam's sin is shown to have implicated all men
> because he was the federal head of humanity, somewhat as in Christ's death
> 'one died for all, therefore all died' (2 Cor. 5:14). Paternity plays no
> part in making Adam 'the figure of him that was to come' (Rom. 5:14).*

Imputation of the righteousness of Christ to sinners is grace. Imputation
of the sin of Adam to those who aren't sinners is ... what?

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
Received on Sat Nov 13 19:36:20 2004