Re: personal revelations

From: George Murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Sun Mar 02 2003 - 19:29:21 EST

  • Next message: John Burgeson: "Re: personal revelations"

    John Burgeson wrote:
    >
    > Iain Strachan wrote:
    >
    > "(2) Concerning the "fruits". Interestingly, we had a sermon in church where
    > we heard an example of an Orthodox Jew who was converted to Christianity
    > just upon reading Matthew Chapter 1. This had much to do with the layout
    > (the three "14's" of generations), and the fact that 14 is the numerical
    > value of "David"."
    >
    > Two comments:
    >
    > 1. "I heard a sermon which said" is perhaps the weakest sort of anecdotal
    > evidence for anything which touches on matters of this kind. I have heard
    > more than my share of "Christian" stories, told in church and otherwise,
    > which were made to appear truthful but were, in fact, simply "lies told for
    > Jesus' sake." I give the above account a credence fact of -- say -- .00001%.
    >
    > 2. It is interesting to note that the specific text this fanciful account is
    > based upon is, itself, a rather good example of a logical error (disproving
    > inerrancy) in scripture. So if the story is true, the person described was
    > converted by hearing something non-factual. Which could happen, of course;
    > people testify often to having been converted by ICR's arguments. But it is
    > a shaky kind of transformation experience, I'd observe.

    Burgy -
            Basic agreement on both points but I think you overstate both a bit.
            1) I think few preachers who use the modern Jonah, the proof of Joshua's long
    day &c are "lying" in the sense that they know the claims to be false but use them
    anyway. In most cases it's probably a combination of naivete, laziness about checking
    sources, and ignorance of science to the extent that they don't know what's plausible &
    what isn't. The response of one preacher when I told him that the Joshua story (which
    he's used in a newsletter, not a sermon) was spurious was instructive. No argument,
    surprise &c, just "Oh - I guess I'd better not use that any more."
     
            2) I'm not sure just what "logical error" you mean in Mt's geneaology.
    Certainly the evangelist forced the data into the 3 x 14 pattern, so it's not an
    historically precise geneaology. But that "disproves inerrancy" only if one equates
    inerrancy with "Just the facts ma'am." (You may recall lengthy debates between me &
    Glenn on this.) As a theological statement that Jesus is the Davidic Messiah (d + w + d
    = 14) it works. Of course it isn't a _proof_ that Jesus is the Davidic Messiah.

                                                            Shalom,
                                                            George
    George L. Murphy
    gmurphy@raex.com
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/



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