Re: personal revelations

From: John Burgeson (burgythree@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue Mar 04 2003 - 13:03:11 EST

  • Next message: bivalve: "Re: Numbers"

    Commenting on my observation that the genealogy in Matthew cannot be seen as
    being without error, George replied:

    "We shouldn't imagine that Mt just didn't know how to count, or that he was
    hoping that nobody would notice that the last third of the genealogy had
    only 13 generations."

    Of course, I made no such claim. I did (and do) claim that the account is
    certainly in error. In so claiming I would not attribute either of the two
    "imaginations" above to the writer of Matthew.

    "It's one thing to try to figure out the theo-logic which he was using, as
    Gundry does. It's quite another to claim that somehow Mt really does list
    14 biological generations so that he's historically "inerrant.""

    I agree with your second point -- But "theo-logic" or not, the passage is
    certainly in error. Mathematically in error. 14+14+14=42 in those days as
    well as in ours.

    There appear to be two ways of approaching the inerrancy of the Bible
    question.

    One is to assume inerrancy a priori; take the deductivist approach and force
    fit every problemmatic passage into its own "ad hoc" explanation. Almost all
    the problem passages I've looked at can be "explained" in this way, although
    the result has the Bible suffering "the death of a thousand qualifications."
    Some of the "ad hocs" are (IMHO of course) really strained, for instance:

    James 4:5 which quotes scripture that does not exist
    Jer 27 which reads "Jehoiakim" rather than "Zedekiah"
    Matt 27:9 which references Jeremiah rather than Zechariah (I note that
    Calvin commented on this and, in effect, said "so what?") But it IS a
    passage which falsifies inerrancy, except with a very far out ad hoc.

    Stephen Davis wrote a great book on all this -- THE DEBATE ABOUT THE BIBLE
    (1977). So good was it that an inerrantist, Pinnoch, even wrote the Forward
    to it. I have written notes on this book and placed them on my web site,
    page 2, section 11. I welcome comments on them.

    George, you also wrote: "...In his Mt commentary Gundry says: "To get this
    third fourteen Matthew probably counts Mary as well as Jospeh; i.e., the one
    chronological generation carries two other kinds of generations within it, a
    legal (Josph's) and a physical (Mary's).""

    I appreciate that explanation; I had not seen it before. Of course it is,
    like every other explanation I've seen, another "ad hoc." I would say that
    even if true (that is, accepting the ad hoc for the sake of argument) the
    passage remains in error; that is, the explanation does not suffice.

    Stephen Davis (and I) do not approach the Bible as being inerrant a priori
    -- that is, we do not take a deductivist approach, but an inductivist
    approach to the subject. But read my notes on his book -- better still, read
    his book. 150 pages.

    If one wishes to take the a priori presupposition that the Bible is without
    error, then there can be no debate of course (except whether that approach
    is the correct one). If one takes the inductivist approach -- studying the
    Bible for what it says and not what one brings to it -- concluding inerrancy
    might be possible, but I think one can do it only by turning off his or her
    brain at the church door.

    BTW -- another book on the subject is Harold Lindsell's THE BATTLE FOR THE
    BIBLE. In defending inerrancy, Lindsell points out that the idea that the
    Bible is without error makes it quite certain that Peter denied our Lord not
    3 times, but 6 times. Davis has a lot of fun with that howler in his book.

    Burgy

    www.burgy.50megs.com (revised Mar 3, 2003)

    _________________________________________________________________
    The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
    http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Mar 04 2003 - 13:06:04 EST