RE: What Evolution Means

From: Shuan Rose (shuanr@boo.net)
Date: Sun Apr 07 2002 - 17:16:55 EDT

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    Whooa, Lucy. This was an example I found of the kind of wrong thinking about
    evolution that I am hoping that good church teaching could correct! Sorry
    for the confusion.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    Behalf Of Lucy Masters
      Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 6:20 PM
      To: asa@calvin.edu
      Subject: What Evolution Means

      Shuan wrote:

      Let's discuss just what evolution would mean if it were true. If evolution
    were true then there would be absolutely no point to life except to
    reproduce. We are merely links on a chain. We are the highest and most
    advanced form that evolution has taken, but eventually we'll be regarded as
    pond scum. We are insignificant individuals on an insignificant planet in an
    insignificant solar system in an insignificant galaxy in an insignificant
    universe. What we do today will hold little or no significance for future
    generations and there are no consequences for our actions. You believe that
    there is no God or if there is a God he did a crappy job creating the
    universe and then just kicked back after he finished his "half-ass job" and
    let nature do it itself (which according to theistic evolutionists did a
    much better job than God did).

      Lucy responds:

      Shuan, I cannot imagine how you arrived at these conclusions and wonder if
    you heard them from a pastor in a fundamentalist church? Good heavens...it
    appears you are saying that a "work in progress" is necessarily inferior.
    What evolution "means" to me is God is simply not quite finished with us
    yet. And why should He be? Why on earth would we deny God the ability to
    take His time making us into the perfect creatures He desires? I have many
    purposes in life (and only one child). I have never felt insignificant.
    Also, you seem to have the idea that God created everything EXCEPT nature;
    that is, you seem to believe that when "nature" is working God has no part
    in the process. There's a point of logic missing here. Just think about
    it. If God created everything, then God created nature, and evolution, and
    gravity, and so on.

      Shuan wrote:

      In fact it is not technically a science at all. Common descent can not be
    directly observed so it must be believed in faith. This makes it a religion.

      Lucy responds:

      No, Shuan. We also didn't see all the volcanic eruptions that created
    landmasses all over the planet, but our belief in those geologic facts does
    not make geology a religion. There is plenty of scientific evidence to
    support both evolution and the geologic creation of land masses. They are
    sciences because of the **way** that information is known (measurement,
    empiricism, etc.).

      Shuan wrote:
      Numerous times contradictions and nonsense occur in evolution.

      Lucy responds:
      Yes...and contradictions and nonsense occur in medical science, too, over
    the ages. But a science it remains, and our steady improvement in medical
    science does not make older practitioners quacks - they did the best they
    could with the knowledge at hand. Importantly, you should note that a huge
    percentage of our "improved knowledge" is *ALL* of the sciences has a strong
    foundation in prior facts. Rarely do we throw out entire ideas and replace
    them with something new. We add to existing knowledge. Such is the case
    with evolution and medicine.

      Shuan wrote:
      If you believe in evolution, you believe that nothing came from nowhere to
    create the big bang. Inanimate material self-organized into a complex
    universe. Electricity struck ozone to create inanimate organic material
    which in turn self-organized within a chaotic environment to create
    proteins. These inanimate objects also self-organized and turned from
    non-living to living. These single celled creatures who were incapable of
    thought, through personification, willingly changed their genetic structure.
    Through a fluke two fragile sexes were developed (which is de-evolution
    because it makes reproduction much more fragile, unlikely, and difficult)
    which both survived and thrived. After this, cells began to group together
    to form multi-cellular animals which, in turn, mutated their own dna and
    after a series of impossible circumstances became life as we know it.

      Lucy responds:
      Wow! Where did you study biology? I have **got** to meet your teacher
    and take him out for a stiff whiskey (just brought back some great stuff
    from Scotland). Single celled creatures *willingly* changed their genetic
    structure???? How do those little guys do that? Please tell me immediately
    because I desperately want to look like Kim Bassinger and will *will* myself
    right away! Shuan - you speak as though the inanimate becoming the animate
    is crazy thinking (even though we are composed of all sorts of inanimate
    stuff like hydrogen and oxygen and carbon), but you don't think God waving a
    magic wand to create the universe out of nothing in seven days is a bit
    daft. Where is your logic?



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