Re: How to teach about evolution in the church. Was" Utley v Dawkins"

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Fri Apr 05 2002 - 16:42:39 EST

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            I've got to proofread better! For "geocentrists" read
    ""heliocentrists" in the 1st sentence here.

    George

    george murphy wrote:

    > My proposal amounts to having "the evolutionists" take over
    > the churches" in the same sense that the geocentrists "took over the
    > churches" a few centuries ago.
    > I reiterate what I said below: Evolution is not to be the
    > central message that the church proclaims, to be raised to the level
    > of an unchallengeable meta-principle, or anything of the sort. But
    > when creation and related topics are dealt with in sermons, parish
    > education, &c, there are appropriate ways in which our scientific
    > knowledge of the world should be brought in.
    > If churches continue to picture evolution as an adversary of
    > Christianity then those who are opposed to Christianity will be only
    > too happy to take the proferred weapon and clobber the church with it.
    >
    >
    > Shalom,
    >
    > George
    >
    > George L. Murphy
    > http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    > "The Science-Theology Interface"
    >
    > Woodward Norm Civ WRALC/TIEDM wrote:
    >
    >> Methinks that the evolutionists are getting a little greedy.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> First they have taken over the public schools;now they want to take
    >> over the churches.
    >>
    >> Doesn’t the Separation Clause swing both ways?
    >>
    >> Norm
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: Shuan Rose [mailto:shuanr@boo.net]
    >> Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 2:43 PM
    >> To: glenn.morton@btinternet.com; Walter Hicks; gmurphy@raex.com
    >> Cc: Asa
    >> Subject: How to teach about evolution in the church. Was" Utley v
    >> Dawkins"
    >>
    >> Glenn Morton wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> I am not sure that is why people become YECs. I knew the arguments
    >> for an
    >> old earth before I became a YEC. I became a YEC because my religious
    >>
    >> beliefs required it. The reasoning is that if God's word says this
    >> happened, and if we trust God, then we should believe what is
    >> written. Same
    >> reasoning goes to many other parts of the Bible such as, God's word
    >> says
    >> that Jesus arose, If I trust God, then I should believe that. The
    >> parallelism of this type of argument is why YEC arguments have force
    >> in
    >> Christianity. It is not merely a matter of knowledge. I know lots of
    >> YECs
    >> who know the arguments for an ancient earth--indeed, Allen knows
    >> them
    >> also--e.g. light from distant stars.
    >> And I might add that this misunderstanding is why so often our
    >> arguments
    >> fail to reach their target.
    >>
    >> Glenn, you are on target. The main reason people become YECs is not
    >> because they believe that creation science is superior, but because
    >> they believe that if Genesis is not literally true, then the
    >> entire Bible is a lie. Often they hear this from the their pastor,
    >> or some other chuch leader. Which leads to George's point:
    >>
    >>
    >> The best way to "deny others the tools" is for churches to
    >> incorporate
    >> evolution into thei theology, teaching, proclamation, & worship. By
    >> this of
    >> course I do not mean that evolution should be the heart of the
    >> church's message,
    >> that it should be considered an ultimate truth, or anything like
    >> that. But if
    >> people heard evolution being discussed in positive ways in the
    >> church, and if the
    >> doctrine of creation were presented with evolution in view, then
    >> children would
    >> learn to see it as part of a Christian understanding of the world.
    >> Then when
    >> they got to high school and some atheist biology teacher said (as
    >> was the
    >> experience of one of my parishoners) "Forget what you've learned in
    >> Sunday School
    >> - now we're going to learn how it really happened", their reaction
    >> would be,
    >> "What are you talking about? Evolution is how we learned it in
    >> Sunday School."
    >> In contrast, the way too many churches have dealt with this issue
    >> amounts
    >> to painting a target on their chests and then handing atheists a
    >> gun.
    >>
    >>
    >> I agree with George that the best way to counter what Walter Hicks
    >> described as "flagrant atheism, liberalism $ humanism taught in many
    >> public schools in my state" is to do a better job of teaching about
    >> evolution in church. Church leadersare often the problem here ,
    >> however. Quite a few are YECs or YEC sympathizers.Even if they might
    >> be inclined to teach positively about evolution, the issue is so
    >> controversial that leaders do not want to go into it. I know some
    >> YECs who are so committed on the issue that they are quite capable
    >> of instigating a church split over the issue.Not too many church
    >> leaders want to be accused of introducing " liberal, godless,
    >> apostate, evolutionistic" doctrine into the church.Those of us who
    >> are from a conservative evangelical background know what I am
    >> talking about.
    >>
    >>
    >> Shuan Rose
    >> 2632 N Charles Street,Baltimore MD 21218
    >> [410]467-2655
    >>



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