Hi Glenn
The wires are running hot.
Glenn Morton wrote:
>
> I don't have any Oz YECs from that period nor do I know of any and you all
> exported Ken Ham to the US where he could make lots of money. However, in
> the 1800s my feeling is (only a feeling) that the US was already more
> literalist than the UK, but there were members of the species on both sides
> of the Alantic.
Ken Ham is revenge for MacDonalds.
The Rev Clarke (1798-1878) was Australia's first government geologist (for NSW),
chaplain, curate, involved in the discovery of gold and the Hunter Valley
coalfields. He of course believed in an old earth
>
>
> >> "But let us generously suppose that these remote ancestors,
> >> beginning with one pair, doubled their numbers in 1612.51 years,
> >> one-tenth as rapidly as the Jews, or 1240 times in 2,000,000 years.
> >> If we raise 2 to the 1240th power, the result is
> >> 18,932,139,737,991 with 360 figures following." ~ William A.
> >> Williams, Evolution Disproved, (privately published, 1925), p. 10.
> >>
> >
> >This is a new one on me. Can you tell me more?
>
> He was a preacher and his pamphelt was in its 53rd printing in 1953. It is a
> sad little tract and that is about all I know of Williams. His daughter was
> selling these things long after his death and she lived in Texas.
>
>
Thanks
>
>
> >> Rimmer was extremely influential, he is just forgotten today. He
> >wrote lots
> >> of books which sold a whole lot, long before Henry began his career as a
> >> writer.
> >>
> >
> >And didn't even get a mention from him in the "Genesis Flood". Is
> >he mentioned
> >in "History of Modern Creationism"? I don't have that bit.
>
> Yes he is mentioned in "history". As to Genesis Flood, Whitcomb and Morris
> didn't bother to give credit to lots of people whose ideas they confiscated.
> Price was the most notable non-mention in Henry's book.
>
Are you sure? My photo copy of the relevant section has quite a generous
mention to Price.
> >>
> >> > What were people
> >> >reading in Christian magazines, newspapers, hearing in Sunday
> >> >School? I think this is
> >> >an area worthy of research.
> >>
> >> Well, they were buying the books I am reading during the 19th century.
>
> >The number of times these books were reprinted (and where) would
> >be telling. It
> >would give us an idea as to how late old ideas were still in
> >circulation. After
> >all, isn't "The Genesis Flood" still in publication? My copy is the 24th
> >printing (1980), so goodness knows what it is up to now.
>
> There was tremendous interest in the Science/Scripture issue. Figuier's
> continental-sized flood book sold from 1863 until 1895 and was reprinted
> many times during that interval. Hugh Miller's books were published for over
> 20 years. The number of books illustrates that as well as how long some of
> them were published. Look at the following list of books.Books on the
> harmonization of scritpure with science I know of but don't own:
>
> Noah: or, The Man of Two Worlds. With the Story of the Deluge. Revised by
> Daniel P. Kidder
> New York: Published by Lane & Scott for the Sunday-School Union of the
> Methodist Episcopal Church, Joseph Longking, Printer, 1850
>
> Rawlinson, George The Historical evidences of the truth of the Scripture
> Records stated anew John Murray London, England 1860.
>
> Henry Taylor. AN ATTEMPT TO FORM A SYSTEM OF THE CREATION OF OUR GLOBE, OF
> THE PLANETS, AND THE SUN OF OUR SYSTEM; FOUNDED ON THE FIRST CHAPTER OF
> GENESIS, ON THE GEOLOGY OF THE EARTH, AND ON THE MODERN DISCOVERIES IN THAT
> SCIENCE, AND THE KNOWN OPERATIONS OF THE LAWS OF NATURE.. Second Edition,
> Revised and Enlarged.
> (Quebec: Cowan, 1840)
>
> Thompson, Joseph P.: MAN IN GENESIS AND IN GEOLOGY: OR THE BIBLICAL ACC
> OUNT OF MAN'S CREATION,. TESTED BY SCIENTIFIC THEORY. NY:1870
>
> Whewell, William, Indications of the Creator. Extracts, Bearing upon
> Theology, from the History and the Philosophy of the Inductive Sciences, 2nd
> ed. (London: John W. Parker, 1846).
>
> Higgins, W.M.[Mullinger] The Mosaical and Mineral Geologies, Illustrated and
> Compared
> London Simpkin & Marshall 1833
>
> Galloway, William Brown SCIENCE AND GEOLOGY IN RELATION TO THE UNIVERSAL
> DELUGE
> London THYNNE 1888
>
> Wiggins (Ezekiel S.) THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE HEAVENS: ... a New Theory of
> the Universe and the Extent of the deluge and the Testimony of the Bible and
> Geology In Opposition to the VIEWS OF DR. COLENSO. John Lovell. Montreal,
> 1864
>
> Sienkiewicz, Henryk The Deluge Little Brown and Company 1891
>
> Lenormant, Francois. THE BEGINNINGS OF HISTORY According to the Bible and
> the Traditions of Oriental Peoples: From the Creation of Man to the Deluge.
> New York: Scribner's, 1899. Translated by Francis Brown
>
> HASSKARL, Rev. G. C.H. The Terrible Catastrophe, or Biblical Deluge
> C. Henry 1885 Philadelphia, PA
>
> Cumming, John The Church Before The Flood Boston: John P. Jewett & Co. 1854
>
> Howorth, H. H. THE MAMMOTH AND THE FLOOD
> London: Sampson Low, Marston, Searle, & Rivington, 1887
>
> Dr. Young of Whitby, Essay on the Deluge
>
> Wyeth, S.D. Bible Stories in Bible Words: The World Before the Flood and
> Scenes in the Lives of the Patriarchs Philadelphia Fisher & Brother 1864.
>
> Hales, William. A New Analysis of Chronology and Geography, History and
> Prophecy. Second Edition, Corrected and Improved. London: Printed for C. J.
> G. & F. Rivington, 1830
>
This is a very mixed bag. Miller and Whewell are not in the same category as
most of the others.
>
> Thus while the philosophical winners of the day were congratulating
> themselves, the laity were lapping up books on the issue which were not
> always saying what the winners were. Two different cultures speaking only
> to themselves is largely what I see. And even today one sees that. The YECs
> and anti-evolutionists retreat to closed e-mail lists so that they don't
> have to hear how wrong they are.(example: ICR's closed web site Phil
> Johnson's private list).
>
Agreed
>
> >
> >I was speaking to an SDA friend who knows Ronald Numbers. His
> >work of Ellen
> >White is of course of great interest to that church. My friend
> >mentions that
> >while the sources of White's ideas on heath, diet, etc., have been largely
> >discovered, where he geological ideas came from have not yet surfaced.
>
> Stoner suggests something about this:
>
> "Because White's early followers regarded her visions as
> being equal in authority with the Bible, they believed the
> creation days had to be 24 hours long. One of these followers
> George McCready Price had some scientific training. When he
> began encountering geological evidence for the antiquity of the
> earth, he realized he had a problem. After some searching, he
> found what he believed to be the solution in another of White's
> visions:
> "[After the flood] The beautiful, regular shaped
> mountains had disappeared. Stones, ledges, and ragged
> rocks appeared upon some parts of the earth which were
> before out of sight. Where had been hills and mountains,
> no traces of them were visible...
>
> Before the flood there were immense forests. The trees
> were many times larger than any tress which we now
> see...At the time of the flood these forests were torn up
> or broken down and buried in the earth. In some places
> large quantities of these immense trees were thrown
> together and covered with stones and earth by the
> commotions of the flood. They have since petrified and
> become coal, which accounts for the large coal beds which
> are now found. This coal has produced oil..."
>
> "White claimed that Noah's flood had caused a great deal of
> geological commotion. Price reasoned that if all of the
> geological evidence for an old earth could be explained by this
> commotion, then he did not need to abandon White's 24-hour
> creation days. So Price took on the immense task of rewriting
> the entire science of geology to conform it to White's visions
> of the creation and the flood." ~ Ellen White, Facts of Faith
> in connection with the History of Holy Men of Old, (Battle
> Creek, Mi: Steam Press, 1864), p. 78-79 cited by Don Stoner, A
> New Look at an Old Earth," (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House
> Publishers, 1997), p. 122-123
>
> "When Moris needed an explanation for the formation of coal, he
> had one essentially ready to go in Price's writings. The
> connection between price's and Morris's descriptions is not
> explicit, but it is still easily visible." ~ Don Stoner, A New
> Look at an Old Earth," (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House
> Publishers, 1997), p. 125
>
But apparently White's dietary ideas can be traced back to other publications
she read and annoted. As yet nobody as done this to her geology. However the
quotes ypou give could be derived from a whole bag of usual suspects.
Jon
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Feb 13 2002 - 02:33:37 EST