Hi Jon,
>-----Original Message-----
>From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
>Behalf Of Jonathan Clarke
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:50 PM
>
> We can pay
>> attention to the geologists who never wrote about the flood,
>other than as a
>> local event, after about 1840, or we can chose to learn what we
>can of those
>> who were ignoring the geologists AND the clergy.
>
>I agree. Why were people ignoring geologists and clergy? I think
>we need to do
>it culture by culture as well, the UK was not the US and neither was Oz.
I don't have any Oz YECs from that period nor do I know of any and you all
exported Ken Ham to the US where he could make lots of money. However, in
the 1800s my feeling is (only a feeling) that the US was already more
literalist than the UK, but there were members of the species on both sides
of the Alantic.
>> "But let us generously suppose that these remote ancestors,
>> beginning with one pair, doubled their numbers in 1612.51 years,
>> one-tenth as rapidly as the Jews, or 1240 times in 2,000,000 years.
>> If we raise 2 to the 1240th power, the result is
>> 18,932,139,737,991 with 360 figures following." ~ William A.
>> Williams, Evolution Disproved, (privately published, 1925), p. 10.
>>
>
>This is a new one on me. Can you tell me more?
He was a preacher and his pamphelt was in its 53rd printing in 1953. It is a
sad little tract and that is about all I know of Williams. His daughter was
selling these things long after his death and she lived in Texas.
>
>> Rimmer was extremely influential, he is just forgotten today. He
>wrote lots
>> of books which sold a whole lot, long before Henry began his career as a
>> writer.
>>
>
>And didn't even get a mention from him in the "Genesis Flood". Is
>he mentioned
>in "History of Modern Creationism"? I don't have that bit.
Yes he is mentioned in "history". As to Genesis Flood, Whitcomb and Morris
didn't bother to give credit to lots of people whose ideas they confiscated.
Price was the most notable non-mention in Henry's book.
>>
>> > What were people
>> >reading in Christian magazines, newspapers, hearing in Sunday
>> >School? I think this is
>> >an area worthy of research.
>>
>> Well, they were buying the books I am reading during the 19th century.
>The number of times these books were reprinted (and where) would
>be telling. It
>would give us an idea as to how late old ideas were still in
>circulation. After
>all, isn't "The Genesis Flood" still in publication? My copy is the 24th
>printing (1980), so goodness knows what it is up to now.
There was tremendous interest in the Science/Scripture issue. Figuier's
continental-sized flood book sold from 1863 until 1895 and was reprinted
many times during that interval. Hugh Miller's books were published for over
20 years. The number of books illustrates that as well as how long some of
them were published. Look at the following list of books.Books on the
harmonization of scritpure with science I know of but don't own:
Noah: or, The Man of Two Worlds. With the Story of the Deluge. Revised by
Daniel P. Kidder
New York: Published by Lane & Scott for the Sunday-School Union of the
Methodist Episcopal Church, Joseph Longking, Printer, 1850
Rawlinson, George The Historical evidences of the truth of the Scripture
Records stated anew John Murray London, England 1860.
Henry Taylor. AN ATTEMPT TO FORM A SYSTEM OF THE CREATION OF OUR GLOBE, OF
THE PLANETS, AND THE SUN OF OUR SYSTEM; FOUNDED ON THE FIRST CHAPTER OF
GENESIS, ON THE GEOLOGY OF THE EARTH, AND ON THE MODERN DISCOVERIES IN THAT
SCIENCE, AND THE KNOWN OPERATIONS OF THE LAWS OF NATURE.. Second Edition,
Revised and Enlarged.
(Quebec: Cowan, 1840)
Thompson, Joseph P.: MAN IN GENESIS AND IN GEOLOGY: OR THE BIBLICAL ACC
OUNT OF MAN'S CREATION,. TESTED BY SCIENTIFIC THEORY. NY:1870
Whewell, William, Indications of the Creator. Extracts, Bearing upon
Theology, from the History and the Philosophy of the Inductive Sciences, 2nd
ed. (London: John W. Parker, 1846).
Higgins, W.M.[Mullinger] The Mosaical and Mineral Geologies, Illustrated and
Compared
London Simpkin & Marshall 1833
Galloway, William Brown SCIENCE AND GEOLOGY IN RELATION TO THE UNIVERSAL
DELUGE
London THYNNE 1888
Wiggins (Ezekiel S.) THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE HEAVENS: ... a New Theory of
the Universe and the Extent of the deluge and the Testimony of the Bible and
Geology In Opposition to the VIEWS OF DR. COLENSO. John Lovell. Montreal,
1864
Sienkiewicz, Henryk The Deluge Little Brown and Company 1891
Lenormant, Francois. THE BEGINNINGS OF HISTORY According to the Bible and
the Traditions of Oriental Peoples: From the Creation of Man to the Deluge.
New York: Scribner's, 1899. Translated by Francis Brown
HASSKARL, Rev. G. C.H. The Terrible Catastrophe, or Biblical Deluge
C. Henry 1885 Philadelphia, PA
Cumming, John The Church Before The Flood Boston: John P. Jewett & Co. 1854
Howorth, H. H. THE MAMMOTH AND THE FLOOD
London: Sampson Low, Marston, Searle, & Rivington, 1887
Dr. Young of Whitby, Essay on the Deluge
Wyeth, S.D. Bible Stories in Bible Words: The World Before the Flood and
Scenes in the Lives of the Patriarchs Philadelphia Fisher & Brother 1864.
Hales, William. A New Analysis of Chronology and Geography, History and
Prophecy. Second Edition, Corrected and Improved. London: Printed for C. J.
G. & F. Rivington, 1830
Thus while the philosophical winners of the day were congratulating
themselves, the laity were lapping up books on the issue which were not
always saying what the winners were. Two different cultures speaking only
to themselves is largely what I see. And even today one sees that. The YECs
and anti-evolutionists retreat to closed e-mail lists so that they don't
have to hear how wrong they are.(example: ICR's closed web site Phil
Johnson's private list).
>
>I was speaking to an SDA friend who knows Ronald Numbers. His
>work of Ellen
>White is of course of great interest to that church. My friend
>mentions that
>while the sources of White's ideas on heath, diet, etc., have been largely
>discovered, where he geological ideas came from have not yet surfaced.
Stoner suggests something about this:
"Because White's early followers regarded her visions as
being equal in authority with the Bible, they believed the
creation days had to be 24 hours long. One of these followers
George McCready Price had some scientific training. When he
began encountering geological evidence for the antiquity of the
earth, he realized he had a problem. After some searching, he
found what he believed to be the solution in another of White's
visions:
"[After the flood] The beautiful, regular shaped
mountains had disappeared. Stones, ledges, and ragged
rocks appeared upon some parts of the earth which were
before out of sight. Where had been hills and mountains,
no traces of them were visible...
Before the flood there were immense forests. The trees
were many times larger than any tress which we now
see...At the time of the flood these forests were torn up
or broken down and buried in the earth. In some places
large quantities of these immense trees were thrown
together and covered with stones and earth by the
commotions of the flood. They have since petrified and
become coal, which accounts for the large coal beds which
are now found. This coal has produced oil..."
"White claimed that Noah's flood had caused a great deal of
geological commotion. Price reasoned that if all of the
geological evidence for an old earth could be explained by this
commotion, then he did not need to abandon White's 24-hour
creation days. So Price took on the immense task of rewriting
the entire science of geology to conform it to White's visions
of the creation and the flood." ~ Ellen White, Facts of Faith
in connection with the History of Holy Men of Old, (Battle
Creek, Mi: Steam Press, 1864), p. 78-79 cited by Don Stoner, A
New Look at an Old Earth," (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House
Publishers, 1997), p. 122-123
"When Moris needed an explanation for the formation of coal, he
had one essentially ready to go in Price's writings. The
connection between price's and Morris's descriptions is not
explicit, but it is still easily visible." ~ Don Stoner, A New
Look at an Old Earth," (Eugene, Oregon: Harvest House
Publishers, 1997), p. 125
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
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