Let's try the formatting of this once again:
From: RDehaan237@aol.com
> In a message dated 11/10/01 10:06:48 AM, hvantill@novagate.com writes:
<< OK, thanks for the effort. Let's follow up on that. Suppose that God were
to add a "new formational capability" to the Creation today at 1 p.m. Would
atoms, or molecules, or cells then be able to do things after 1 p.m. that
they were not able to do before? Would the observable/measurable properties
or behavior patterns of atoms, molecules, or cells be observed to change at
1 p.m.? Is this how new, more complex structures/systems arise? >>
> Howard, In your question you used an example that is so far afield from my
view of
> how God works that I can hardly respond to it. The idea of God adding new
> informational capability to the creation at "1 pm today" *for no apparent
> reason* does not fit in any way into my way of thinking. It makes me wonder
> if you really understand or accept what I wrote about staged development of
> creation.
Bob, your addition of the words *for no apparent reason* introduces an
element that is completely foreign to what I actually said. In no way did I
suggest "no apparent reason" for God's action. I am just trying to find out
what you envision as the action that God performs when you say God
introduces a "new formational capability."
> God does not act capriciously.
Once again your addition of "capriciously" completely changes what I
actually said.
> As I wrote before, his adding new
> informational capability occurred during transitions between stages of
> creational development. Doing so is part of the plan of creation, not a spur
> of the moment decision, or an emergency response to some failure or
> inadequacy of creation.
Once again, Bob, I'm not interested in dealing with the issue of "for no
apparent reason," or "capriciously," or "spur of the moment," or "emergency
response." Every one of those terms is totally irrelevant to the actual
question that I raised. My concern with both Peter's proposal re "hidden
options" and your proposal re "staged developmental creation" is to get a
clearer picture of what kind of divine action you have in mind.
> So let's take your 1-PM-today scenario (give or take a few millions of
> years) and place it sometime between the cooling of the earth and the
> appearance of the first living cell, roughly 3.8 billion years ago. Then the
> answer to your question is, yes, atoms, or molecules, or cells would then be
> able to do things that they were not able to do before. C, H, O, N atoms
> along with others, were able to do something new, .....
Bob, any suggestions as to what actually was modified? Were the rules of
quantum mechanics changes? Were the values of one or more of the fundamental
constants changed? Were the natures of interaction forces modified? Was the
nature of space changed? Any one of these modifications would indeed alter
the formational capabilities of atoms, molecules and cells.
> As a theistic IDer, I hold that the first biological cell was irreducibly
> complex, intelligently designed, and formed by as yet unknown means that
> include the addition of new formational capabilities by divine action.
Yes, I understand that. I'm just trying to understand how these general
commitments translate into a specific vision of what sort of divine action
was performed.
Howard
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