Re: death and sin

From: David F Siemens (dfsiemensjr@juno.com)
Date: Fri Feb 16 2001 - 15:49:34 EST

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    On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:50:31 -0600 "Jeff Witters"
    <jeffwitters@hotmail.com> writes:
    > I got a call from my father, a Nazarene minister, the other night.
    > One of
    > the flock (a quiet agronimist) got pulled into a c/e discussion at
    > work, got
    > leveled by a stumper, and came to Dad wondering how to resolve the
    > question.
    >
    > So, I am trying to pull together some resources for him on the topic
    > of
    > "original sin" and its effects on creation. Specifically these are
    > in
    > answer to Sure-Fire Evolutionist Stumper #371: Evolution can't
    > possibly be
    > true because the Bible teaches that no death existed before the
    > Fall.
    >
    First, where in the Bible does it say this? This claim requires mostly
    extrabiblical claims to derive it.
    Second, what kind of death is in view in Genesis 2:17? Unless God lied,
    Adam died the day he ate.* But the record tells us that he had children
    who inherited a fallen nature from him (4:1f, 25; 5:4; Romans 5:12), and,
    for that matter, needed clothes after the Fall, and had a new
    complication in raising food (Genesis 3:15-19, 21). Consider also Eve's
    status (3:16). Finally, it won't get him brownie points with his
    opponents, but the chap may refer to II Peter 3:16.
    Dave

    *This would not be telling for day-age interpreters, but the problem
    noted springs strictly from those who insist on 24-hour days. So the
    specious "thousand years as a day" (Psalm 90:4; II Peter 3:8) cannot bail
    them out.

    > I know that many have addressed this issue and I already have some
    > materials. I am especially looking for anything from a TE
    > perspective. Any
    > help would be greatly appreciated. Any tips on getting the search
    > funtion
    > to work on the listserv archives would be great too.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Jeff Witters
    >
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