Re: [asa] guns, germs, & steel

Thanks for your reply, Steve. And sorry I haven't been on this last
week --things are really hectic now that school is in full swing.

I'm not surprised to hear (according to your recollection) that he's
probably an atheist. I know he technically isn't an anthropologist
either, though he might as well be with as many related hats as he wears
and given the material he's researched and writes about in this work. I
remember reading somewhere that the field of anthropology has one of
the lowest rates of Christianity (or maybe it was even just theism)
--it was well down in the single digit percentages, I believe.

Yet it is refreshing to note of Diamond's example that not all atheists
have abandoned even any pretense of aspiration towards objectivity.
Diamond lets some of the uglier aspects of the history of organized
religion speak for themselves --not dodging or whitewashing them, of
course, but also then not adding any sweeping diatribes of his own
against all religion. In fact he speaks of traveling about with some
friends who happen to be missionaries and in some places refers to the
health & education benefits that (in a presumably positive sense --at
least he didn't suggest otherwise) also followed with some mission
efforts. So he doesn't try to maintain the embarrassingly naive
"religion = everything evil that ever happened / secularism = everything
good that ever happened" dichotomy that seems such common fair among
outspoken atheists today.

--Merv

Steve Martin wrote:
> Hi Merv,
>
> I read "Guns, Germs, & Steel" quite a while ago and thoroughly enjoyed
> it. (Diamond's follow-up book "Collapse" is also good – but the first
> was better). Diamond "doesn't write from an explicitly Christian
> point of view" because (I'm pretty sure) he is an atheist. That
> being said I would agree that he "doesn't go out of his way to mock or
> denigrate religion" and that "his perspective in this work has been
> level-headed". From what I recall, he discusses societal development
> (notice I avoided the "E" word :-) ) without reference to the
> supernatural, but does not then make conclusions about the
> supernatural. (There may be times where his atheistic bias comes
> through – I can't recall – but all author's metaphysical biases come
> through at times). Contrast that to many other works (eg. Dawkins
> "Selfish Gene") which frequently derive anti-supernatural conclusions
> from natural evidence.
>
> Regarding the interaction of "sin and the fall" with Diamond's ideas,
> I'm not sure there is anything really new to discuss. From my
> understanding, it is clear that the development of morality and
> religion occurred very early on in the history of humanity, much
> before God revealed himself to Abraham (or maybe even Adam). This
> just shows that humanity was designed to relate to its creator, and
> would act on those instincts. However, on our own we could never find
> God, let alone build a right relationship with God. Early religion
> was a seeking that was doomed to fail. That is why God revealed
> himself to us, first to the ancient Hebrews in various ways, and then
> most explicitly in the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus
> Christ.
>
> At least that is the way I understand it.
>
>
> thanks,
>
> On 8/1/08, *Merv* <mrb22667@kansas.net <mailto:mrb22667@kansas.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Jared Diamond, in his book: "Guns, Germs, & Steel" (1997) offers
> some broad analytical strokes regarding the history of human
> societies, and discusses compellingly the evolutionary natures of
> the rise & fall of various civilizations. Even though this isn't
> his most recent work, and I'm only half through it, I'm curious if
> others here have read or discussed Diamond's observations?
>
> It would be interesting to hear an evolutionary Creationist apply
> Biblical criticism and interaction with Diamond's analysis. & how
> sin & fall are understood within such an understanding.
>
> Diamond doesn't write from an explicitly Christian point of view,
> but he doesn't go out of his way to mock or denigrate religion
> either. His perspective in this work has been level-headed and
> has made for enlightening reading thus far! Anybody else
> interested in discussing this? Unless, of course, bickering
> among ourselves proves to be more fun...
>
> --Merv
>

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Received on Fri Aug 15 06:34:57 2008