Re: [asa] guns, germs, & steel

Hi Merv,
On the dearth of Christian anthropologists, see Arnold's article in PSCF (
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2006/PSCF12-06Arnold.pdf ) from a couple of
years ago ... Anthropologists were by far the most likely academics to state
"none" for their religion in the survey Arnold quotes. The article is
excellent. I'd also be interested if someone who was at the ASA meeting
could summarize Thomas Headland's related discussion.
thanks,
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 6:33 AM, Merv <mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:

> Thanks for your reply, Steve. And sorry I haven't been on this last week
> --things are really hectic now that school is in full swing.
>
> I'm not surprised to hear (according to your recollection) that he's
> probably an atheist. I know he technically isn't an anthropologist either,
> though he might as well be with as many related hats as he wears and given
> the material he's researched and writes about in this work. I remember
> reading somewhere that the field of anthropology has one of the lowest
> rates of Christianity (or maybe it was even just theism) --it was well down
> in the single digit percentages, I believe.
>
> Yet it is refreshing to note of Diamond's example that not all atheists
> have abandoned even any pretense of aspiration towards objectivity. Diamond
> lets some of the uglier aspects of the history of organized religion speak
> for themselves --not dodging or whitewashing them, of course, but also then
> not adding any sweeping diatribes of his own against all religion. In fact
> he speaks of traveling about with some friends who happen to be missionaries
> and in some places refers to the health & education benefits that (in a
> presumably positive sense --at least he didn't suggest otherwise) also
> followed with some mission efforts. So he doesn't try to maintain the
> embarrassingly naive "religion = everything evil that ever happened /
> secularism = everything good that ever happened" dichotomy that seems such
> common fair among outspoken atheists today.
>
> --Merv
>
>
> Steve Martin wrote:
>
> Hi Merv,
>
> I read "Guns, Germs, & Steel" quite a while ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.
> (Diamond's follow-up book "Collapse" is also good – but the first was
> better). Diamond "doesn't write from an explicitly Christian point of
> view" because (I'm pretty sure) he is an atheist. That being said I would
> agree that he "doesn't go out of his way to mock or denigrate religion" and
> that "his perspective in this work has been level-headed". From what I
> recall, he discusses societal development (notice I avoided the "E" word :-)
> ) without reference to the supernatural, but does not then make conclusions
> about the supernatural. (There may be times where his atheistic bias comes
> through – I can't recall – but all author's metaphysical biases come through
> at times). Contrast that to many other works (eg. Dawkins "Selfish Gene")
> which frequently derive anti-supernatural conclusions from natural
> evidence.
>
> Regarding the interaction of "sin and the fall" with Diamond's ideas, I'm
> not sure there is anything really new to discuss. From my understanding,
> it is clear that the development of morality and religion occurred very
> early on in the history of humanity, much before God revealed himself to
> Abraham (or maybe even Adam). This just shows that humanity was designed
> to relate to its creator, and would act on those instincts. However, on our
> own we could never find God, let alone build a right relationship with God.
> Early religion was a seeking that was doomed to fail. That is why God
> revealed himself to us, first to the ancient Hebrews in various ways, and
> then most explicitly in the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Jesus
> Christ.
>
> At least that is the way I understand it.
>
> thanks,
>
> On 8/1/08, Merv <mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:
>>
>> Jared Diamond, in his book: "Guns, Germs, & Steel" (1997) offers some
>> broad analytical strokes regarding the history of human societies, and
>> discusses compellingly the evolutionary natures of the rise & fall of
>> various civilizations. Even though this isn't his most recent work, and I'm
>> only half through it, I'm curious if others here have read or discussed
>> Diamond's observations?
>>
>> It would be interesting to hear an evolutionary Creationist apply Biblical
>> criticism and interaction with Diamond's analysis. & how sin & fall are
>> understood within such an understanding.
>>
>> Diamond doesn't write from an explicitly Christian point of view, but he
>> doesn't go out of his way to mock or denigrate religion either. His
>> perspective in this work has been level-headed and has made for enlightening
>> reading thus far! Anybody else interested in discussing this? Unless,
>> of course, bickering among ourselves proves to be more fun...
>>
>> --Merv
>>
>>

-- 
Steve Martin (CSCA)
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