Re: [asa] Torture

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Merv. I've commented on it below.

On 8/2/08, mrb22667@kansas.net <mrb22667@kansas.net> wrote:

> Okay --here is an attempt to answer this: Given that you've put yourself in
> this position, you are obviously in the employ of the state and an extension
> of
> it. Now the state will do what the state will do --without regard to
> morality
> except as the voting citizenry forces the issue. So the answer is a
> foregone
> conclusion that yes, you will --and would even if you were much less than
> 99%
> sure.

That defense did not work at Nuremberg. Even if I am an agent of the
state, I may not do something clearly unlawful. Yes -- the Nazis were
simply obeying the law of the state during the Holocaust. That did not
excuse them.

> ...I think it is imperative to start with an
> absolute: that torture is just wrong. Period. And then one is forced to
> agonize & weigh out how or if there could ever be exceptions to this. It
> may be
> helpful to compare it to a seemingly less severe sin: lying. Nowhere do
> we
> get a hint in scripture that lying is ever okay. It doesn't say that in
> special
> situations it's okay to bear false witness. It just says not to do it.
> But
> then we encounter Rahab who lies and sends the soldiers away, saving the
> Israelites hidden on her roof. And she is later praised as a hero of the
> faith.
> (Ten Boom would be a modern example of this). So is it okay to lie in
> certain
> situations then? No such permission or exemptions are ever given. We only
> have
> Jesus' sweeping and simple injunction to 'let your yes be yes...' and to
> even
> shun oaths as a so-called 'higher standard' as if we can practice a double
> standard between that and common speech.
>
> Putting this together: we start with the virtuous command or law and live
> according to it. It becomes our habit, our automatic response --at least if
> we
> are successfully training our habits according to the Spirit. Then if we
> ever
> deviate from that it should be with effort and agonizing. Falsehood and
> torture
> & such should be a foreign language to us and morally repugnant. Otherwise
> it
> becomes our native tongue. Instead they should all be a last resort just as
> prayer and exhausting all other options ought to be our desperate first
> resorts.
> That's my two cents.

And it is appreciated. It does not solve the problem, of course. I am
of the opinion that there is no solution.

jb

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Received on Sat Aug 2 15:24:11 2008