Re: [asa] Torture

Quoting j burg <hossradbourne@gmail.com>:

> I have you tied up in my jail cell. I am 99% sure you know where the
> bomb is that will blow up St. Louis in the next hour. I see no
> alternative but to get this information out of you by any means
> possible. Do I still rule out torture?
> Burgy
>
Okay --here is an attempt to answer this: Given that you've put yourself in
this position, you are obviously in the employ of the state and an extension of
it. Now the state will do what the state will do --without regard to morality
except as the voting citizenry forces the issue. So the answer is a foregone
conclusion that yes, you will --and would even if you were much less than 99%
sure. Is it morally okay? Well, according to Paul (Romans 13) the state "does
not bear the sword for nothing". ...and I'm an Anabaptist (Mennonite) saying
this! Paul seems to assume that States will do whatever they do, and that the
morality expected of Christians is not expected from the state which was/is
hardly a christian institution.

But that is a dodge. So what should the morally attentive Christian do if
personally in the same situation? I think it is imperative to start with an
absolute: that torture is just wrong. Period. And then one is forced to
agonize & weigh out how or if there could ever be exceptions to this. It may be
helpful to compare it to a seemingly less severe sin: lying. Nowhere do we
get a hint in scripture that lying is ever okay. It doesn't say that in special
situations it's okay to bear false witness. It just says not to do it. But
then we encounter Rahab who lies and sends the soldiers away, saving the
Israelites hidden on her roof. And she is later praised as a hero of the faith.
 (Ten Boom would be a modern example of this). So is it okay to lie in certain
situations then? No such permission or exemptions are ever given. We only have
Jesus' sweeping and simple injunction to 'let your yes be yes...' and to even
shun oaths as a so-called 'higher standard' as if we can practice a double
standard between that and common speech.

Putting this together: we start with the virtuous command or law and live
according to it. It becomes our habit, our automatic response --at least if we
are successfully training our habits according to the Spirit. Then if we ever
deviate from that it should be with effort and agonizing. Falsehood and torture
& such should be a foreign language to us and morally repugnant. Otherwise it
becomes our native tongue. Instead they should all be a last resort just as
prayer and exhausting all other options ought to be our desperate first resorts.
 That's my two cents.

It's worth noting that recent Chinese Christians have allowed themselves to be
buried alive & have their families killed in front of them for their faith.
They apparently considered faithfulness to be their *only* resort. How many of
us have that level of commitment?

--Merv

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Received on Sat Aug 2 14:55:35 2008