Re: [asa] Creationism Conference

George, I appreciate and applaud your Christ-centered work here on this listserv. I don't think I can overstate the importance I place on your approach and on your faithful re-direction of our attention to Jesus and to the cross.

But I can't go with you here. "Personalities" were not the focus of my comments. PEOPLE were. I know some of the people at the ICC. Some of these folks are serious thinkers, who are fully aware of the strength of evolutionary theory and of the nature of the evidence they need to explain. They deserve respect, because they are faithful and honest. Are they wrong about the age of the earth and the meaning of Genesis? Of course they are. Can they affirm the ASA Statement of Faith, without hesitation, and heartily endorse the "General Statement on Creation" in the ASA's Commission on Creation report? Of course they can. Does that mean they should be welcome at the ASA table, welcome to discuss and disagree without being treated like crap? Of course it does.

If we're going to denounce the destructive consequences of YEC biblical interpretation, we need to do it in such a way as to acknowledge that one need not be stupid or evil to make the YEC mistake. This is precisely the criterion of decency that Bill Dembski just cannot comprehend, and his sickening recent outburst on his blog was an amazing example of the projection of this pathology onto others. For examples, we can look at our own listserv. The ID movement is a profound mistake in my judgment, but Mike Gene is a smart and decent thinker who is honestly grappling with some interesting questions. Blanket denunciations of ID theorists, peppered with gratuitous insults, would hit good people like Mike. If only for his sake, and for Todd Wood's, and even for mine and yours, let's not engage in these tactics. I'm working on this myself; I'm not pretending that it's easy.

I'm happy to give "aid and comfort" to those who are honestly mistaken, who acknowledge the strength of others' arguments while they pursue their own ideas and convictions. If Phil Johnson and Ken Ham had that kind of respect for fellow Christians, this world would surely be a different place.

Steve Matheson
 
>>> "George Murphy" <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com> 06/21/08 8:13 PM >>>
The issue is not - or should not be - personalities. YEC teachings are
poisoning the church in the United States and for that matter the broader
society.. Anything that gives those who promulgate them aid and comfort is
a mistake.

Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Matheson" <smatheso@calvin.edu>
To: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>; "Dick Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Creationism Conference

>I know some of the people who will be there, and know them to be
>intelligent and decent persons of high integrity. So I'm not excited about
>this crass mockery, and I'm especially uncomfortable with the mention of
>"lying." I'm certain that the conference will include crankery and
>ignorance and maybe even some forms of dishonesty, but I'm also quite sure
>that it will be attended by some scientists with expertise and integrity.
>In the ASA that I would like to belong to (if it exists), young-earth
>creationists of competence and integrity would be fully welcome and would
>feel as comfortable as an evolutionary creationist or design proponent
>would. I doubt that comments like Dick's give that impression.
>
> I think I understand Dick's response, and I don't want to make it sound
> like I don't also feel immense frustration and anger when considering the
> actions of fellow Christians who claim to reject common descent or the
> ancient earth. But we really don't want to suggest that Mike Gene is the
> same kind of person that Bill Dembski seems to be, any more than we want
> to suggest that I am the same kind of person that Richard Dawkins seems to
> be, or that Andrew Snelling is the same kind of person that Jonathan
> Sarfati seems to be. Dick's comments would seem to suggest that one
> cannot expect to find YECs with professional (or personal) integrity. I
> know this to be untrue.
>
> Oh, and one of these years (next year I hope) I intend to attend an ICC,
> and I would expect to be treated with respect and decency, maybe even with
> warm hospitality. Wouldn't it be great if our listserv and/or our
> meetings could be characterized like that?
>
> Steve Matheson, who isn't for a moment suggesting that we oughtn't be
> strongly critical of bad ideas
>
>>>> "Dick Fischer" <dickfischer@verizon.net> 06/21/08 9:19 AM >>>
> Looks like a real gathering of eagles. I wonder if "Lying with a
> Straight Face" is a title of any of the conference papers?
>
> Dick Fischer, author, lecturer
> Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham
> <http://www.historicalgenesis.com> www.historicalgenesis.com
>
> 2008 International Conference on Creationism
>
>
> This summer, the International Conference on <http://www.icc08.org/>
> Creationism (ICC) will be held in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania from August
> 3-7 at the Radisson Hotel
> <http://www.icc08.org/ICCmaptoRadissonHotel10.pdf> Conference Center.
> Creation <http://www.csfpittsburgh.org/> Science Fellowship (CSF)
> working together with The Institute for Creation Research
> <http://www.icr.org/> (ICR) will host this scientific conference
> featuring about forty peer-reviewed research papers dealing with the
> topic of origins.
> The ICC is the world's leading scientific conference for developing the
> creation model and will feature about forty
> <http://www.icc08.org/schedule.htm> original papers and special evening
> presentations by the world's leading creation researchers and speakers
> including Andrew Snelling, Russ Humphreys, John Baumgardner, Steve
> Austin, John Sanford, John Whitmore, John Hartnett and many more. These
> papers, as well as the evening presentations are described on the
> conference web site which is www.icc08.org <http://www.icc08.org/> .
> This conference will be of special interest to Christian high school and
> college science teachers. The papers cover a wide variety of topics
> falling into any one of the following categories: Foundations of
> Science, Life Sciences, Stellar and Planetary Sciences, Earth Sciences,
> Social Sciences and the Humanities. These sessions require
> registration.
> You have three options for conference registration:
> 1. Register online at www.icc08.org
> 2. Use the form on our ICC brochure
> <http://www.icc08.org/ICC2008_Brochure.pdf> .
> 3. Use the special Registration PDF Form
> <http://www.icc08.org/reg_form.pdf> available on our web site. It has
> form fields so you can type your information and then print it.
> The cost is explained in detail with any of the above three resources.
> Though the daytime session are technical and require registration, the
> evening presentations are free and open to the public. The technical
> level of the evening presentations will be appropriate for the average
> adult audience. Teenagers, parents, pastors, and anyone interested in
> the topic of origins will all find these evening sessions beneficial.
> * Sunday, August 3 - Speaker: Dr. Russ Humphreys, PhD
> Topic: Why is the "Age-Issue" important to the Origins Debate and in
> particular to the Creation Model of Origins?
> * Monday, August 4 - Speaker: Steve Austin, PhD
> Topic: Understanding the Mud Flow Revolution
> * Tuesday, August 5 - Speaker: John Baumgardner, PhD
> Topic: Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: A Mechanism for the Flood.
> * Wednesday, Aug. 6 - Speaker: Andrew Snelling, PhD
> Topic: The Creation Model: Its Past, Its Present and Its Necessary
> Future
> My responsibility is to coordinate publicity for the ICC conference.
> You can help by copying the text of this article to the clipboard and
> pasting it into the body of an email. Send the email to friends of
> yours whom you think would have an interest in this conference. Feel
> free to contact me directly with questions. My email address is
> stevesobek@comcast.net
> Steve Sobek
> ICC Publicity Coordinator
> and CEAI Member
> www.icc08.org <http://www.icc08.org/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
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Received on Sat Jun 21 20:59:20 2008