Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

Hey Mike,

This is my last post for the day since I've reached my limit, but here it
goes!

"I'd say that human beings clearly evolved, yet in some very deep sense, are
also responsible for bringing the darkness into our world. "

How can they be responsible for something that happened long before they
existed? You can't say the process of evolution, which includes pain and
suffering for animals, was caused by humans. Nor can you say that because
an earthquake hit a human settlement and killed the inhabitants that they
were responsible for it. How and when were humans responsible? Or are you
saying that these things (that have happened for billions of years) only
became 'dark' due to humans?

" Thanks to Nature, millions of humans suffer agonizing pain."
True, but pain is a good thing. It stops us from destroying ourselves.
Leprosy is a disease which grants the bearer a pain free existence, but who
wants it? And nature equally provides millions of humans with joy,
pleasure, and life.

Bethany

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:

> Hi Bethany,
>
>
>
> "Mike, if you have #2, natural evil, you run into all sorts of other
> problems. The entire ecological system (food chains and such) would have
> had to pop up over night. The same would be true of plate tectonics, air
> and water circulation and countless other things. Can you really blame all
> those on the moral choice of two humans?"
>
>
>
> Maybe. Christian theology is rife with these dilemmas. Is God One or
> Three? Was Jesus God or Man? Do we have free will or is God in charge of
> everything? Is the Bible the word of God or was it written by men? Are
> we saved by grace or works? I'm not sure why anyone believes our
> primitive, limited, primate brains can truly understand how to seamlessly
> tie these together. So yes, in this case, I'd say that human beings
> clearly evolved, yet in some very deep sense, are also responsible for
> bringing the darkness into our world.
>
>
>
> "And, could the world exist without those things?"
>
>
>
> Nope, not our world.
>
>
>
> "The world is dependent on those cycles in order to be able to sustain
> life. Is that evil?"
>
>
>
> I did not say that Nature is purely evil, but it is a great source of
> suffering and evil in our world. Thanks to Nature, millions of humans
> suffer agonizing pain.
>
>
>
> -Mike Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bethany Sollereder <bsollereder@gmail.com>
> *To:* Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> *Cc:* asa@calvin.edu
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)
>
> That doesn't seem very convincing to me, if only because aid after natural
> disasters is a relatively modern invention, as is medicine that could
> actually help those people.
>
> Mike, if you have #2, natural evil, you run into all sorts of other
> problems. The entire ecological system (food chains and such) would have
> had to pop up over night. The same would be true of plate tectonics, air
> and water circulation and countless other things. Can you really blame all
> those on the moral choice of two humans? And, could the world exist without
> those things? The world is dependent on those cycles in order to be able to
> sustain life. Is that evil?
>
> Bethany
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You might have a point there, because even in great natural disasters,
>> many more are killed when aid can't reach them. Sometimes (many/most
>> times?) the aid is blocked because of politics and crime.
>>
>>
>>
>> …Bernie
>>
>
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>

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Received on Wed Jun 18 14:21:03 2008