RE: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

Nucacids said:
"I did not say that Nature is purely evil, but it is a great source of
suffering and evil in our world. Thanks to Nature, millions of humans
suffer agonizing pain."

Is this conflating pain with evil? If one accidentally bumps another and
hurts him, is that evil? No, because there was no intent at evil. In
the same way, earthquakes don't intend evil, or intend anything.
Earthquakes (and plagues) are just a consequence of God's design for
nature.

...Bernie

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of Nucacids
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:08 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

Hi Bethany,

"Mike, if you have #2, natural evil, you run into all sorts of other
problems. The entire ecological system (food chains and such) would
have had to pop up over night. The same would be true of plate
tectonics, air and water circulation and countless other things. Can
you really blame all those on the moral choice of two humans?"

Maybe. Christian theology is rife with these dilemmas. Is God One or
Three? Was Jesus God or Man? Do we have free will or is God in charge
of everything? Is the Bible the word of God or was it written by men?
Are we saved by grace or works? I'm not sure why anyone believes our
primitive, limited, primate brains can truly understand how to
seamlessly tie these together. So yes, in this case, I'd say that human
beings clearly evolved, yet in some very deep sense, are also
responsible for bringing the darkness into our world.

"And, could the world exist without those things?"

Nope, not our world.

"The world is dependent on those cycles in order to be able to sustain
life. Is that evil?"

I did not say that Nature is purely evil, but it is a great source of
suffering and evil in our world. Thanks to Nature, millions of humans
suffer agonizing pain.

-Mike Gene

        ----- Original Message -----

        From: Bethany Sollereder <mailto:bsollereder@gmail.com>

        To: Dehler, Bernie <mailto:bernie.dehler@intel.com>

        Cc: asa@calvin.edu

        Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:37 AM

        Subject: Re: [asa] The Fall (humanity source of suffering)

        That doesn't seem very convincing to me, if only because aid
after natural disasters is a relatively modern invention, as is medicine
that could actually help those people.
        
        Mike, if you have #2, natural evil, you run into all sorts of
other problems. The entire ecological system (food chains and such)
would have had to pop up over night. The same would be true of plate
tectonics, air and water circulation and countless other things. Can
you really blame all those on the moral choice of two humans? And,
could the world exist without those things? The world is dependent on
those cycles in order to be able to sustain life. Is that evil?
        
        Bethany

        On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Dehler, Bernie
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> wrote:

        You might have a point there, because even in great natural
disasters, many more are killed when aid can't reach them. Sometimes
(many/most times?) the aid is blocked because of politics and crime.

        ...Bernie

        
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Received on Wed Jun 18 14:22:33 2008