Re: [asa] We are not the only ones with integrity

James

I was not making an attack but pointing out that Christian profession and
claims to follow a Christian Worldview or to teach from a Christian
perspective are often simply not adequate and at times plain wrong. My
comments are not based on stereotypes but on the type of "geology" practiced
by YEC geologists. I have read more than is good for my soul!

It is naive to say that they walk to a different paradigm as they simply
reject most of geology and reckon that they can ignore all the evidence for
an ancient earth. It is rather like defending flat-earthism and geocentrism
as different paradigms for astronomy. I am quite sure that a Christian who
tried to defend either a flatearth or geocentric paradigm would similarly
get a rough ride from any group of astronomers Christian or not.

I find your use of paradigm to describe YEC geology totally contrary to any
understanding of paradigm in science as it pushes Kuhn far further than he
or anyone else would and effectively allows an anything-goes position. The
whole pick-'n-mix approach of YEC science should indicate that it is simply
wrong and that we should not recognise it as valid science.

Where there are different paradigms practised by scientists there is usually
a tremendous overlap and common ground, as there was between continental
drifters and anti-drifters in the 60s , catastrophists and uniformitarians
in the 1830s (treated with terrible misunderstanding by Kuhn), or with
variations in the understanding of the age of the earth in the late 18th
century say between de Luc (10s of 1000s) and Hutton (millions), or the
granite controversy in c1950. In each of these examples both paradigms had a
lot going for them at the time.

There is no point in trying to defend the indefensible and wrong.

Before Art Chadwick speaks about integrating science and Christianity he
should realise that his treatment of the peppered moth goes counter to the
ninth commandment. Integrity is important.

Michael

PS watch out for the Geol Soc of London Special Publication "Geology and
Religion" due out in a year or so. It should have some input from ACG and
other Christians
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Mahaffy" <mahaffy@dordt.edu>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: [asa] We are not the only ones with integrity

> Michael,
>
> I am not sure why my post on the good response of Dave on how to teach
> magnetism from a Christian perspective warranted the attacking the
> integrity of the teaching of Ross and Wise. I am quite sure Marcus's
> students would learn good paleontology if he teaches it at liberty. Even
> if Marcus walks to a different paradigm, I think they wood know which
> fossils were found in the Cretaceous.
>
> I suspect the same is probably true of Kurt Wise. I know he has been
> criticized sometimes for what he believes by YEC's and tried to join the
> Christian geology group and was I am afraid not treated very fairly.
>
> Actually it might help us get away from stereotypes to look at Art
> Chadwick's approach to integrating science and Christianity from
> http://origins.swau.edu/papers/geologic/geology/index.html I think
> especially helpful is how he showed integrity in analyzing Pre-Cambrian
> pollen and human tracks. The SDA have a tradition of good academics even
> while walking in a different paradigm.
>
> I intend to David's good question but I do not like to let us attack straw
> men just because we dislike their positions.
>
> bcc to Art and Marcus
>
> James Mahaffy (mahaffy@dordt.edu) Phone: 712 722-6279
> 498 4th Ave NE
> Biology Department FAX : 712 722-1198
> Dordt College, Sioux Center IA 51250-1697
>>>> "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> 02/15/08 4:56 PM
>>>> >>>
> This also raises the question of what a Christian perspective is. It could
> be said that a devout YEC scientists like Marcus Ross, Kurt Wise, Austin
> and
> many others teach science from a Christian perspective. That creates a
> problem as their science is simply plain awful and along with other YEC
> perspectives have some characteristics which are not quite Christian.
>
> Whereas science as taught in secular universities by atheists do not have
> these undesirable characteristics ( but may have others)
>
> I am relieved that I was taught in a secular situation by scientists of a
> variety of faith perspectives but all with integrity
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Wallace" <wdwllace@sympatico.ca>
> Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Association of Christian Schools Curriculum
>
>
>> James Mahaffy wrote:
>>
>>> Of course as a reformed Christian I happen to think all courses should
>>> be
>>> taught from
>>
>> a Christian perspective and that science is really not neutral but that
>> is
>> another story.
>>>
>>
>> James
>> I find the above claim hard to understand. Consider 1st year university
>> Electricity and Magnetism as taught by the physics department. Can you
>> help me to see how that should be taught from a Christian perspective.
>> When it comes to the humanities I can see your point but have a hard time
>> with much of the physical sciences. I have been watching Walter Lewin's
>> MIT video lectures on the net and wish I had been taught the way he is
>> teaching.
>>
>> http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02Electricity-and-MagnetismSpring2002/VideoLectures/index.htm
>>
>> I can't imagine teaching such a course from a Christian perspective and
>> have it be superior.
>>
>> Dave W (CSCA)
>>
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>
>
>
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Received on Sat Feb 16 16:47:34 2008