Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"

Please -- I'm not defending YEC views, and I'm well aware of how they tie
them to the doctrine of the atonement. Dig a little further on Ham's site,
though, and you'll find that they explicity say that YEC views are not
essential to an *individual's* salvation, even though (in their minds) such
views are foundational to the theology of the atonement.

Nor do I doubt that in some churches YEC views are so fundamentally
important that no deviation is tolerated. Even in the more "tolerant"
northeast, while no one questioned my salvation when I dissented from YEC, I
was called divisive.

But I don't like this "blame" game. I don't like the implication that
evangelicalism must embrace evolution uncritically to avoid producing
legions of EO Wilsons. For lots of people -- problably most people -- this
isn't an issue at all. For those relatively few of us who care about it, if
our response is to earnestly seek after God's truth, there are lots of
resources (ASA being one) and other churches out there. And, even within
evangelicalism, there are currents moving, particularly in the academy.
There are many more people working on this stuff in positive ways in
evangelical schools than we might otherwise think.

On Nov 27, 2007 2:47 PM, Jon Tandy <tandyland@earthlink.net> wrote:

> These are just a few quotes I have in my notes:
>
>
> Ken Ham: "As soon as Christians allow for death, suffering,
> and disease before sin, then the whole foundations of the message of the
> Cross and the Atonement have been destroyed. ... The whole message of the
> Gospel falls apart if one allows millions of years for the creation of the
> world." http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1316.asp
>
> Henry Morris: "When one decides to reject the concept of real
> [young-earth] Creation, there is no scientific stopping-point short of what
> amounts to atheism. ... It [any old-earth view proposing that God created
> a universe that really is the age it appears to be, without apparent age] is
> essentially an affirmation of atheism, a denial of the possibility of a real
> [young-earth] Creation." (The Genesis Flood, pages 237-238, by Whitcomb &
> Morris in 1961; similar views are on page 307 of What is Creation Science?
> by Morris & Parker in 1987)
>
> John Morris: "Any form of evolution and old-earth thinking is
> incompatible with the work of Christ. ... If a Christian can distort
> Scripture to teach such beliefs as evolution, progressive creation, an old
> earth, or a local flood, can that Christian be trusted with other doctrines?
> ... Creationism should be a requirement for Christian leadership! No
> church should sanction a pastor, Sunday school teacher, deacon, elder, or
> Bible-study leader who knowledgeably and purposefully errs on this crucial
> doctrine."
> http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=1108
>
> Though Ken Ham in this quote didn't call non-YEC "atheism" like Henry
> Morris, I'll bet it wouldn't take too much digging (which I haven't done) to
> find similar quotes from him. Isn't destroying the foundation of the
> Atonement akin to atheism, and thus damnation?
>
> In fact, I decided to do a couple minutes of digging and found at least
> one further quotation from Ken Ham:
>
> *"The god of an old earth cannot therefore be the God of the Bible who is
> able to save us from sin and death*....There's no doubt — the god of an
> old earth destroys the Gospel."
> http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v21/i4/oldearth.asp
>
>
> Jon Tandy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] *On
> Behalf Of *David Opderbeck
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:24 PM
> *To:* D. F. Siemens, Jr.
> *Cc:* john_walley@yahoo.com; asa@calvin.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] E.O. Wilson "Baptist No More"
>
> I went to a very conservative "independent" baptist-type church for many
> years where the leaders were YEC. Never was it suggested that there was a
> choice between YEC and "damnation." Even AIG doesn't say this. Maybe that
> is the case in some churches, but let's not overstate it.
>
>

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Received on Tue Nov 27 15:51:29 2007