Re: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

 There is no difference
between TE and guided evolution.  What science has learned about TE is
just the tip of the iceberg of evolution which we shall forever be
examining as our
recent discovery of epigenetics indicates.  To think that we will be
able to understand fully our own evolution ignores the fact that, not
only are there many biochemical mechanisms we have yet to discover, but
we humans are also being gifted with self-guidance in our evolution
which will add an order of magnitude of complexity to the problem.  As
we inherit an ever greater knowledge of our own construction we are
demanded to create ourselves in ever greater compliance with the image
of God or be selected against for our arrogance.  We can create ourselves in our own rational image by advancing only what we currently call "intelligence," and
die off in an evolutionary heartbeat from overspecialization, or we can
also study our most highly evolved instincts and emotions like love,
forgiveness, tolerance, faith, trust and humility, advancing those
traits to create ourselves in the image of (Christ) God to be selected
for survival (salvation). 

Evolution is just a word in
our mouths compared to what's in store after we start tinkering with
our own  Our evolution will be accelerated geometrically.  This is
inevitable.  Guided evolution?  It better be, and it better be guided
by the Spirit and not just science or we're doomed. 

-Mike (Friend of ASA)

-----Original Message-----

From: John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>

To: 'Jack' <drsyme@cablespeed.com>; 'George Murphy' <gmurphy@raex.com>; 'David Campbell' <pleuronaia@gmail.com>; mrb22667@kansas.net

Cc: asa@calvin.edu

Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 6:38 am

Subject: RE: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

Like many terms we use on this list that
are potential mires, I will admit that is possibly misleading but let me take
the opportunity to ask the list for clarification then as this has been a
curious conundrum for me for some time.

How do TE’s technically and accurately
differentiate guided evolution from the a-theistic evolution of Dawkins? That
is the distinction I was trying to draw here.

John

-----Original Message-----

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf
Of Jack

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007
7:32 AM

To: John Walley; 'George Murphy';
'David Campbell'; mrb22667@kansas.net

Cc: asa@calvin.edu

Subject: Re: [asa] Romans 1:20
(disregard my last post)

Your response is a potential mire
with your use of the term "unguided".  But we have discussed
altruism before on this list before, and it can clearly be selected for via
natural selection.  Genes that would cause self sacrificial
behaviors, especially to family members, and even more so to offspring, would
be favored via "random" natural selection.

Jack Syme

----- Original Message -----

From: John Walley

To: 'George Murphy' ; 'David
Campbell' ; mrb22667@kansas.net

Cc: asa@calvin.edu

Sent: Tuesday,
November 20, 2007 6:56 AM

Subject: RE: [asa]
Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

Obviously at the physical
and pheromone level this is true, but at the spiritual level of romance and
love, and macho male protection and altruistic self sacrifice, this defies
non-guided evolution and can possibly qualify as one the “invisible
things” that are “clearly seen”.

Thanks

John

-----Original Message-----

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf
Of George Murphy

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007
9:41 PM

To: John Walley; 'David Campbell';
mrb22667@kansas.net

Cc: asa@calvin.edu

Subject: Re: [asa] Romans 1:20
(disregard my last post)

In fact pretty girls - &
handsome boys - fit in perfectly with evolution through natural
selection.  Those traits are clearly advantageous, ceteris paribus,
for attracting mates & passing on their genes.

Shalom

George

http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

----- Original Message -----

From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>

To: "'John Walley'" <john_walley@yahoo.com>;
"'David Campbell'" <pleuronaia@gmail.com>; <mrb22667@kansas.net>

Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:06
PM

Subject: RE: [asa] Romans 1:20
(disregard my last post)

And furthermore, in my opinion
pretty girls make a decent rebuttal to C.S.

Lewis's claim that you can't discern whether the God of nature is a loving

God or capricious, ambivalent, etc. I think that beauty in nature,

especially feminine beauty, speaks volumes about our creator. And that is

something that a red in tooth and claw nature can't readily explain either.

John

-----Original Message-----

From: John Walley [mailto:john_walley@yahoo.com]

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:59 PM

To: 'David Campbell'; 'mrb22667@kansas.net'

Cc: 'asa@calvin.edu'

Subject:
RE: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

But pretty girls definitely reflect the glory of His Creation and could

therefore loosely fall under the scope of Romans 1:20. :)

John

-----Original Message-----

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On

Behalf Of David Campbell

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 2:24 PM

To: mrb22667@kansas.net

Cc: asa@calvin.edu

Subject:
Re: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

> > Suppose then this person converts to deism still from a purely
secular

point

> > of view and then starts exploring all the world's religions to see if

any of

> > their testable truth claims can survive the scrutiny of being
compared

to

> > the scientific record. And suppose then that after eliminating all
the

> > others they conclude that Christianity is valid and real and the
Bible

is

> > inspired, and therefore they become a Christian.

> >

> > In this scenario, can we so confidently say that "that natural
theology

does

> > *not*  lead a person to Christ" ?

I see a semantic difference here.  At the ultimate level, only the

work of the Spirit can lead one to Christ.  In this particular

situation, I would identify the examination of various religions as

the means used in leading to Christ, though of course God was working

though his interest in science, etc.   As another example, I know of
a

couple of testimonies from men who came to Christianity from other

religions.  Initial motive for coming to a Christian fellowship group

was that all the pretty girls were there.

-- 
Dr. David Campbell
425 Scientific Collections
University of Alabama
"I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.