RE: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

This is enlightening to me and I will concede you have given me something to
think about but I see these differences.

The scriptures don't say except in the general terms of all things working
together for good, that if you marry a person for wrong reasons that it will
lead you to Christ. In fact this is obviously an exception to the rule. They
do specifically say however that the invisible things of creation and that
which was made and the heavens etc will lead you to Christ. So this is a
flawed analogy.

Further, science is the battleground where the battle over the worldviews is
taking place. ID's overplaying its science is in part a reaction to the
established science-justified militant atheism of Dawkins, Dennet, Myers,
Weinberg, ad nauseum. And science it what is offered by these atheists as
the replacement source of truth instead of religion.

So yes, Ross had chosen his own metaphysic by choosing science but it was
taking the advice of atheists, and he arrived at a different conclusion. I
contend this still proves my point. In at least some cases, the facts of
science can be used to lead people to Christ. I don't see why this is so
controversial or why this even needs to be defended. And that the fact that
the Bible also teaches this is just extra.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of mrb22667@kansas.net
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 3:33 PM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] Romans 1:20 (disregard my last post)

Sorry about that last post; I accidentally sent it before I had written
anything
in it.

Quoting John Walley <john_walley@yahoo.com>:
> Suppose then this person converts to deism still from a purely secular
point
> of view and then starts exploring all the world's religions to see if any
of
> their testable truth claims can survive the scrutiny of being compared to
> the scientific record. And suppose then that after eliminating all the
> others they conclude that Christianity is valid and real and the Bible is
> inspired, and therefore they become a Christian.
>
> In this scenario, can we so confidently say that "that natural theology
does
> *not* lead a person to Christ" ?
>
> Choose your answer carefully because that person is Hugh Ross and that is
> exactly his testimony.
>
> Thanks
>
> John

Two thoughts:

1. can somebody follow an erroneous path to something legitimate? I ask
rhetorically, because I think you would all agree we can. Someone may have
the
most dubious or immature reasons for seeking a particular person as their
spouse. But as their relationship grows, IF it does in healthy ways,
infatuations and lusts may be replaced with real love and God may bless the
union. Doesn't this apply to Christ whom we may approach with frail and
error-fraught logic, and yet the real relationship eventually supercedes the
faulty foundations that may have initially brought someone on board. God
can
use evil -- that doesn't make it any less evil. So it follows that God
could
make use of YECism or any other ism for His own purposes. That doesn't
mean we
shouldn't strive to correct those things when they are discovered to be in
error. The error is ours -- not God's.

2. Your alleged person has already chosen their (non-Christian, but not
necessarily anti-Christian) metaphysic if they are in this position. To
repeat
again briefly:
> ...starts exploring all the world's religions to see if any of
> their testable truth claims can survive the scrutiny of being compared to
> the scientific record.

If science is the measure of what they choose as truth, then they have
already
chosen their higher truth: the scientific method. Now they are just
shopping
for a compatible religion as a handmaiden to their metaphysic. Yet, if
somebody follows that path to Christ, then so much the better for them!
--that
is, their *destination* is to be commended, thought not necessarily their
path
there. God may well use this for Hugh Ross or Mr. Flew, and perhaps they
would
even continue to cling to this foundation after (in Mr. Flew's case) moving
another step and becoming Christian. But the path should not be elevated
to
some status of being immune to error. God causes ALL things to work
together
for good... (not just the things that pass muster of human reason.)

--Merv

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Received on Fri Nov 16 16:07:41 2007