Re: [asa] Romans 1:20

I am not sure natural theology is the right term as it implies we can work
out a system of belief.
If it is the right term then unknowingly I have used natural theology for
over 40 years!

A key defining moment for me in the acceptance of a God behind all nature
took place on a mountain in Wales when I took my bike over a mountain track
and incredible views from the top (Brits note I was cycling at 2400 feet)
including watching a thunderstorm traverse Snowdonia. It was five years
before I became a Christian (with no dramatic conversion)

The beauty and wonder of the natural world convinces me of a god, but not of
Christ. It still supports my faith but does not give clear content except
general awe and wonder.

I prefer General Revelation as in Berkouwer's General Revelation which makes
much of the nature psalms

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Walley" <john_walley@yahoo.com>
To: "'Don Nield'" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: "'George Murphy'" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "'David Campbell'"
<pleuronaia@gmail.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Romans 1:20

> The problem I have with this response is that it leaves the natural
> theology
> critic in the awkward position of betting against God in order to be
> right.
> What if Flew one day decided that he would continue his conversion from
> deism to theism or all the way to being a follower of Christ?
>
> And afterwards what if he said it was the evidences of a designer that
> eventually led him to seek Christ? How can we rule this out? Perhaps as
> Dick said the seed here fell upon stony ground and didn't take root? How
> can
> we conclude definitively that the seed was bad because it didn't take root
> when there are other factors?
>
> Consider another hypothetical scenario, suppose someone grows up in a
> foreign country outside of the Christian influence of America and in fact
> never even meets a Christian. Suppose they are drawn to science and
> explore
> the universe through science and find from a purely secular perspective an
> enigma in all the just right characteristics of the universe that happened
> just so to allow life.
>
> Suppose then this person converts to deism still from a purely secular
> point
> of view and then starts exploring all the world's religions to see if any
> of
> their testable truth claims can survive the scrutiny of being compared to
> the scientific record. And suppose then that after eliminating all the
> others they conclude that Christianity is valid and real and the Bible is
> inspired, and therefore they become a Christian.
>
> In this scenario, can we so confidently say that "that natural theology
> does
> *not* lead a person to Christ" ?
>
> Choose your answer carefully because that person is Hugh Ross and that is
> exactly his testimony.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Don Nield
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:21 PM
> To: John Walley
> Cc: 'George Murphy'; 'David Campbell'; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Romans 1:20
>
> In a recent interview with Benjamin Wiker, Antony Flew has explicitly
> said that he is now a deist, not a theist. His case is a very good
> illustration of George's point that natural theorlogy does *not* lead a
> person to Christ.
> Don
>
>
> John Walley wrote:
>> How can you deny that Flew's conversion to theism is the work of the Holy
>> Spirit? He is not going to get straight to Christ without passing through
>> these intermediate steps along the way. And even if he never does it
> doesn't
>> prove it still wasn't the work of the Spirit. But it is ridiculous to say
>> that because he isn't all the way there yet that it wasn't God trying to
> get
>> him there.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
>
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Received on Fri Nov 16 15:53:40 2007