Re: [asa] Pathological Science and the Crisis of Modernity

Good old janice always predictable thanks for the good laugh

On 11/5/07, Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> At 06:24 PM 11/4/2007, PvM wrote:
>
> >Thanks Janice for a good laugh. http://tinyurl.com/32kn4l I wonder
> >how St Augustine "feels".
> >:-):-) ~ Pim
>
> @@ For one thing, St. Augustine would have preferred that you wonder
> "what he thinks" , not "how he feels" about whatever the subject
> is. As a non-chickified male, St. Augustine
> wouldn't have elevated his unstable, fluctuating emotions (feelings)
> over intellectually honest, rational thought. He wouldn't have
> allowed his heart to rule his head, in other words.
>
> *
> For another, St. Augustine didn't "feel" that absolute truth (God)
> exists; he knew it does. Nor did he suffer from extreme cognitive
> dissonance (the mental confusion that results from holding polar
> opposite ideas, attitudes & beliefs simultaneously) like you do:
>
> QUOTE: "When I state that there is no such thing as absolute truth, I
> mean that even if it were to exist, we would never be able to know
> that it did." ~ Pim van Meurs making two statements, both of which he
> believes to be absolutely true thereby defeating his own argument
> within one short sentence - on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:49:42 Re:
> Alliance for Science
>
> QUOTE: "Do you think that athiests want to live in harmony with any
> idea of religion?" ~ Matt "Fritz" Bergin to Pim
>
> QUOTE: "Yes." ~ Pim van Meurs stating what he believes to be absolute
> truth on Sat Mar 11 2006 - 19:49:42 EST Re: Alliance for Science
> http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200603/0398.html
>
> *
> For another, St. Augustine also knew that heretics exist.
>
> QUOTE: "Scriptures teach the total depravity of man, therefore we
> can hope for the best -- but expect the worst from each other and
> from the social institutions and "movements", etc. humans
> devise. ~ Janice Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:46:51 -0500 Re: [asa] Random and
> design
>
> QUOTE: "I believe that the Bible offers much better philosophies
> than this." ~ Pim van Meurs 03:54 PM 11/24/2006
>
> QUOTE: "... we should be weary of ... philosophical interpretation
> to which I object. ... ~ Pim van Meurs 04:54 PM 11/24/2006
>
> QUOTE: "Sorry, but it's NOT a "philosophical" interpretation, it's a
> plain Scriptural teaching. The verse that clearly teaches total
> depravity: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
> me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ~ Jesus [John
> 6:44] http://www.tektonics.org/tulip/tulip.html ~ Janice Fri, 24 Nov
> 2006 17:43:25 -0500
>
> QUOTE: "You mean it is your interpretation of scriptural teachings.
> This is very much a philosophical interpretation. Calling it a plain
> Scriptural teaching is just begging the question." ~ Pim van
> Meurs continuing to make declarative statements that he believes to
> be "absolute truth". :) 06:02 PM 11/24/2006
> http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200611/0299.html
>
> *
> For another, St. Augustine warns against such self- imposed
> authorities in biblical interpretation:
>
> QUOTE: "Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring
> untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are
> caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to
> task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.
> ... Augustine was not afraid of knowledge from any direction because
> he knew the Source of all truth. He was open to all truth from any
> direction. The God who made nature also inspired Scripture and never
> would contradict himself. ... Sometimes scientists make claims that
> are more theological than scientific, and Christian believers
> sometimes aver views of nature that are not well-founded, either
> scripturally or scientifically. This crossing of boundaries is where
> most of the problems arise. ...Christians can be sure that God's
> truth in nature does not contradict God's truth in
> Scripture." ~ Kenneth J.
> Howell http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9803fea3.asp
> (Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram: 1.19.39 translated by J.H. Taylor,
> Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41
> http://www.pibburns.com/augustin.htm
>
>
> 4. "...Augustine, laboured to show, that we are not corrupted by
> acquired wickedness, but bring an innate corruption from the very
> womb. It was the greatest impudence to deny this. But no man will
> wonder at the presumption of the Pelagians and Celestians, who has
> learned from the writings of that holy man how extreme the effrontery
> of these heretics was...."
> http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.ii.html
>
> 11. "...Augustine hesitates not to call those sins natural which
> necessarily reign in the flesh wherever the grace of God is wanting.
> ..." http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.ii.html
>
> 10. "...Augustine justly derides some who arrogate to themselves a
> certain power of willing, as well as censures others who imagine that
> that which is a special evidence of gratuitous election is given to
> all (August. de Verbis Apost. Serm. 21). He says, "Nature is common
> to all, but not grace;" and he calls it a showy acuteness "which
> shines by mere vanity, when that which God bestows, on whom he will
> is attributed generally to all." Elsewhere he says, "How came you? By
> believing. Fear, lest by arrogating to yourself the merit of finding
> the right way, you perish from the right way. I came, you say, by
> free choice, came by my own will. Why do you boast? Would you know
> that even this was given you? Hear Christ exclaiming, 'No man comets
> unto me, except the Father which has sent me draw him.' "
>
> 13. "..Augustine uses these words, "Every good work in us is
> performed only by grace," (August. Ep. 105).
>
> 14. ".... [Augustine] presses Pelagius to confess that gratuitous
> grace is necessary to us for every action, and that merely from the
> fact of its being truly grace, it cannot be the recompense of works.
> But the matter cannot be more briefly summed up than in the eighth
> chapter of his Treatise De Correptione et Gratia, where he shows,
> First, that human will does not by liberty obtain grace, but by grace
> obtains liberty. Secondly, that by means of the same grace, the heart
> being impressed with a feeling of delight, is trained to persevere,
> and strengthened with invincible fortitude. Thirdly, that while grace
> governs the will, it never falls; but when grace abandons it, it
> falls forthwith. Fourthly, that by the free mercy of God, the will is
> turned to good, and when turned, perseveres. Fifthly, that the
> direction of the will to good, and its constancy after being so
> directed, depend entirely on the will of God, and not on any human
> merit. Thus the will (free will, if you choose to call it so), which
> is left to man, is, as he in another place (Ep. 46) describes it, a
> will which can neither be turned to God, nor continue in God, unless
> by grace; a will which, whatever its ability may be, derives all that
> ability from grace. .."
> <http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.iv.html>http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.iv.html
>
>
> ~ Janice ,,, etc., etc.
>
> >On 11/3/07, Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ahhh the smell of truth wafting from the kitchen in the late
> > afternoon. Dinners' ready! ~ Janice :)
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/32kn4l
> > > Friday, November 02, 2007
> > > Pathological Science and the Crisis of Modernity
>
>

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Received on Mon Nov 5 14:52:03 2007