Re: [asa] Pathological Science and the Crisis of Modernity

At 06:24 PM 11/4/2007, PvM wrote:

>Thanks Janice for a good laugh. http://tinyurl.com/32kn4l I wonder
>how St Augustine "feels".
>:-):-) ~ Pim

@@ For one thing, St. Augustine would have preferred that you wonder
"what he thinks" , not "how he feels" about whatever the subject
is. As a non-chickified male, St. Augustine
wouldn't have elevated his unstable, fluctuating emotions (feelings)
over intellectually honest, rational thought. He wouldn't have
allowed his heart to rule his head, in other words.

*
For another, St. Augustine didn't "feel" that absolute truth (God)
exists; he knew it does. Nor did he suffer from extreme cognitive
dissonance (the mental confusion that results from holding polar
opposite ideas, attitudes & beliefs simultaneously) like you do:

QUOTE: "When I state that there is no such thing as absolute truth, I
mean that even if it were to exist, we would never be able to know
that it did." ~ Pim van Meurs making two statements, both of which he
believes to be absolutely true thereby defeating his own argument
within one short sentence - on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 16:49:42 Re:
Alliance for Science

QUOTE: "Do you think that athiests want to live in harmony with any
idea of religion?" ~ Matt "Fritz" Bergin to Pim

QUOTE: "Yes." ~ Pim van Meurs stating what he believes to be absolute
truth on Sat Mar 11 2006 - 19:49:42 EST Re: Alliance for Science
http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200603/0398.html

*
For another, St. Augustine also knew that heretics exist.

QUOTE: "Scriptures teach the total depravity of man, therefore we
can hope for the best -- but expect the worst from each other and
from the social institutions and "movements", etc. humans
devise. ~ Janice Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:46:51 -0500 Re: [asa] Random and design

QUOTE: "I believe that the Bible offers much better philosophies
than this." ~ Pim van Meurs 03:54 PM 11/24/2006

QUOTE: "... we should be weary of ... philosophical interpretation
to which I object. ... ~ Pim van Meurs 04:54 PM 11/24/2006

QUOTE: "Sorry, but it's NOT a "philosophical" interpretation, it's a
plain Scriptural teaching. The verse that clearly teaches total
depravity: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ~ Jesus [John
6:44] http://www.tektonics.org/tulip/tulip.html ~ Janice Fri, 24 Nov
2006 17:43:25 -0500

QUOTE: "You mean it is your interpretation of scriptural teachings.
This is very much a philosophical interpretation. Calling it a plain
Scriptural teaching is just begging the question." ~ Pim van
Meurs continuing to make declarative statements that he believes to
be "absolute truth". :) 06:02 PM 11/24/2006
http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200611/0299.html

*
For another, St. Augustine warns against such self- imposed
authorities in biblical interpretation:

QUOTE: "Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring
untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are
caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to
task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books.
... Augustine was not afraid of knowledge from any direction because
he knew the Source of all truth. He was open to all truth from any
direction. The God who made nature also inspired Scripture and never
would contradict himself. ... Sometimes scientists make claims that
are more theological than scientific, and Christian believers
sometimes aver views of nature that are not well-founded, either
scripturally or scientifically. This crossing of boundaries is where
most of the problems arise. ...Christians can be sure that God's
truth in nature does not contradict God's truth in
Scripture." ~ Kenneth J.
Howell http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9803fea3.asp
(Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram: 1.19.39 translated by J.H. Taylor,
Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41
http://www.pibburns.com/augustin.htm

4. "...Augustine, laboured to show, that we are not corrupted by
acquired wickedness, but bring an innate corruption from the very
womb. It was the greatest impudence to deny this. But no man will
wonder at the presumption of the Pelagians and Celestians, who has
learned from the writings of that holy man how extreme the effrontery
of these heretics was...."
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.ii.html

11. "...Augustine hesitates not to call those sins natural which
necessarily reign in the flesh wherever the grace of God is wanting.
..." http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.ii.html

10. "...Augustine justly derides some who arrogate to themselves a
certain power of willing, as well as censures others who imagine that
that which is a special evidence of gratuitous election is given to
all (August. de Verbis Apost. Serm. 21). He says, "Nature is common
to all, but not grace;" and he calls it a showy acuteness "which
shines by mere vanity, when that which God bestows, on whom he will
is attributed generally to all." Elsewhere he says, "How came you? By
believing. Fear, lest by arrogating to yourself the merit of finding
the right way, you perish from the right way. I came, you say, by
free choice, came by my own will. Why do you boast? Would you know
that even this was given you? Hear Christ exclaiming, 'No man comets
unto me, except the Father which has sent me draw him.' "

13. "..Augustine uses these words, "Every good work in us is
performed only by grace," (August. Ep. 105).

14. ".... [Augustine] presses Pelagius to confess that gratuitous
grace is necessary to us for every action, and that merely from the
fact of its being truly grace, it cannot be the recompense of works.
But the matter cannot be more briefly summed up than in the eighth
chapter of his Treatise De Correptione et Gratia, where he shows,
First, that human will does not by liberty obtain grace, but by grace
obtains liberty. Secondly, that by means of the same grace, the heart
being impressed with a feeling of delight, is trained to persevere,
and strengthened with invincible fortitude. Thirdly, that while grace
governs the will, it never falls; but when grace abandons it, it
falls forthwith. Fourthly, that by the free mercy of God, the will is
turned to good, and when turned, perseveres. Fifthly, that the
direction of the will to good, and its constancy after being so
directed, depend entirely on the will of God, and not on any human
merit. Thus the will (free will, if you choose to call it so), which
is left to man, is, as he in another place (Ep. 46) describes it, a
will which can neither be turned to God, nor continue in God, unless
by grace; a will which, whatever its ability may be, derives all that
ability from grace. .."
<http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.iv.html>http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.iv.ii.iv.html

~ Janice ,,, etc., etc.

>On 11/3/07, Janice Matchett <janmatch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Ahhh the smell of truth wafting from the kitchen in the late
> afternoon. Dinners' ready! ~ Janice :)
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/32kn4l
> > Friday, November 02, 2007
> > Pathological Science and the Crisis of Modernity

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Received on Mon Nov 5 11:01:30 2007