RE: [asa] Natural theology

[Rom 2:14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the
things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto
themselves;
[Rom 2:15] Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their
conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the meanwhile accusing
or else excusing one another;)

One thing that has always amazed me is that Christians are willing to allow
the "thoughts" of the unbelieving Gentiles "accuse" them, but they aren't
too willing in many cases to allow their thoughts to "excuse" them, who
"have not the law" but "do by nature the things contained in the law". One
would think that believers would be more willing to allow God's mercy and to
ponder "the riches of his goodness and forbearance and long suffering" (Rom
2:4) in such cases. Although this verse may not be clear, or certainly not
universally understood, it seems a clear example of how we cannot make
clear-cut judgment against those without the law, but must let God judge
those whom He hasn't seen fit to bring a clear proclamation of the gospel.
 
And (as I think you pointed out, George), these verses in the middle of the
Romans 1-3 context seem to emphasize that what's in view here is not
primarily what science tells us about God, but what nature (in general)
tells us about God's moral law.
 
I have often wondered, going back to Romans 1:20-22, if those verses don't
more especially refer to unrighteous believers. "When they knew God, they
glorified him not as God." Who is it that once knew God and turned away
from Him? Was it the pagan Babylonians, or the idolatrous Jews? Although
these verses could certainly refer to any unbeliever, it seems to me that
the whole passage is primarily intended as a polemic against the Jews who
claimed to keep the law but didn't (in particular 2:17-29; 3:19-21,30). Rom
3:9 "we have proved...Jews and Gentiles are all under sin". There should
have been no surprise to the Jews that the Gentiles are under sin. Paul's
point is that the Jews are not better than the Gentiles, but without true
faith, they are alike under sin with the Gentiles.
 
Of course there's more to Paul's point than this -- chapter 3 and on into
chapter 4 declare the need for all, Jews and Gentiles, to be saved through
faith, not of works. But I think, again, this leads in the opposite
direction of saying that "nature, or natural theology, can lead to God", and
rather emphasizes Paul's point that people by nature have the moral law of
God written on their hearts, and will be justified more by following the
righteousness of faith (like Abraham, without the law) than by relying on
the law or their lineage for their salvation (Rom 4:1-8).
 
 
Jon Tandy
 

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
Behalf Of George Murphy
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:38 PM
To: John Walley; mlucid@aol.com; asa@calvin.edu; 'Janice Matchett'
Subject: Re: [asa] Natural theology

"The only reasonable conclusion" - now it's on the table! God is to be
subjected to our "reasonable" criteria. N.B., this is not a matter of
drawing conclusions from scripture by rational exegesis or from the natural
world by rational scientific study, both of which are legitimate activities,
but of starting with criteria which we think it "reasonable" for God to
obey. It is forcing God into our box - or, in a word, another form of
idolatry.
 
In reality, Romans 1 says that the evidence for God in nature functions to
make them (the same "them" to whom this evidence is presented) "without
excuse." The notion that it is "similar to the witness of the Holy Spirit
in the church age" is utterly without foundation. Yes, the Spirit will
condemn sin (Jn.16:8-9) but most important will testify to Christ (Jn.15:26,
I Cor.12:3 &c.) Does the bacterial flagellum point to Christ?
 
& the fact that people without God's historical revelation are "without
excuse" for their failure to recognize the true God does not strictly imply
that God condemns them. After Paul had appealed to the Athenians'
unfocussed sense of God & rather gently rebuked them for their idolatry, he
said, "While God has overlooked the times of human ignorance, he now
commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This provides at
least an entree to dealing with the question of the status of people in
cultures to whom the gospel has never been brought, such as ancient native
Americans. It does not seem to have any relevance to the ID debate,
scientism, metaphysical naturalism &c in the west.
 
Shalom
George
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/

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Received on Fri Nov 2 22:31:46 2007