Re: [asa] Of motes and beams

Job makes best sense when it is seen not as history but a superb story or
even a novel or an epic poem considering suffering. It is one of my
favourite OT books

Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>
To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>; "Don Nield"
<d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Of motes and beams

> Vernon -
>
> 1) Jesus told many stories. They are all true in the important sense
> that they convey truth about the kingdom of God &c. Whether or not they
> are true in the sense of being accurate historical reports is utterly
> irrelevant. No serious Christian can dismiss stories as necessarily
> untrue.
>
> 2) Whether or not human activity is "immune" from supernatural
> interference is not the question. The fact that investigation based upon
> MN has a great deal of success in understanding important aspects of human
> activity shows that it is a very good working hypothesis & that
> supernatural interference (to be distinguished, of course, from God's
> concurrence with natural processes) is the exception - & in fact a quite
> rare exception.
>
> I.e., both your claims are demostrably false. It would be nice to see you
> admit it when you're wrong. People might take you more seriously if you
> did.
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
> To: "Don Nield" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Of motes and beams
>
>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. However, when you state that "The passages are
>> theological stories about Satan.", does that mean you believe them to be
>> untrue? If so, are you not surprised that God has allowed them to appear
>> in His Revealed Word?
>>
>> On the other hand, if by these means it is intended that Christians be
>> taught some of the fundamentals of life in the courts of heaven, you must
>> surely agree that no form of human activity can be considered immune to
>> supernatural interference. In such circumstances MN must cease to exist
>> as a valid working hypothesis.
>>
>> Vernon
>> www.otherbiblecode.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don Nield" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
>> To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
>> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [asa] Of motes and beams
>>
>>
>>> Vernon:
>>> The passages are theological stories about Satan. They have nothing to
>>> do with science.
>>> All discussion about God is concerned with the supernatural. But that
>>> has nothing to do with methodological naturalism.
>>> Don
>>>
>>> Vernon Jenkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> Forum,
>>>> I observe that many here are quick to pounce on any perceived weakness
>>>> in the YEC position. But what of their own position as TEs? It appears
>>>> to me that all are prepared to ignore some very fundamental Bible
>>>> teaching. For example, concerning Job 1: 6-12, 2:1-6 and 1Kings
>>>> 22:19-22, I am wondering what the purpose of these precious revelations
>>>> might be if not to refute methodological naturalism - which all here
>>>> appear to accept as a valid basis for practising science. Clearly,
>>>> these extracts suggest that the _natural_ is, and always has been, open
>>>> to supernatural activity - in God's wisdom, and at His discretion.
>>>> It is interesting that Darwin's _goad_, Alfred Russell Wallace
>>>> (undoubtedly, a reliable observer - though not a Christian) was
>>>> convinced of the reality of the supernatural and wrote extensively of
>>>> his first hand experiences of it. Many (including myself) would condemn
>>>> his partiality for the seance - but his desire to learn, surely, cannot
>>>> be faulted. On the other hand, our interest in the supernatural, as
>>>> Christians, appears to begin and end with the resurrection. Is this
>>>> really adequate for those who earnestly seek truth?
>>>> Vernon
>>>> www.otherbiblecode.com <http://www.otherbiblecode.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Received on Tue Jul 11 18:03:39 2006