RE: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

Pim

I absolutely agree with you about Christmas commercialism. This is not the
result of capitalism. Once educated on what capitalism is, one would
understand that the concepts of ownership and the pooling together of
capital is an absolute. The question isn't about gathering together of
money and resources, it's to who do they gather. Under socialism it is
gathered for a select few people who are chosen by a select few people who
claim to represent the masses. Sounds like democracy as well, or any other
political structure, doesn't it? But under capitalism, it is gathered to a
select few people who are NOT chosen but who they themselves have worked
hard and with great knowledge and wisdom (financially that is) have been
able to rise to a level capable of increasing the wealth of themselves and
others who ride their coattails. They are not selected by some fallacious
political process, and who knows who, and who kisses whos you know what. It
is about whether you have something which society wants (not necessarily
needs though). How often do you vote? Are you really blind to think your
vote will change the world? You may vote every November or maybe only once
every four years, I vote every day. I do this by deciding how I spend my
money and to whom it will go. If I don't like Chinese human rights, then I
will not shop at Walmart. If I don't like Mideast oil, then I will buy my
gas from a place that only uses NON-Mideast oil, such as BP. I choose to
make a difference daily, how about you? Socialism or any other reliance
upon a governmental system can only lead to the supression of human rights
and freedoms. If you think that Christmas is too commercial then target the
people supporting it and wasting their hard earned money on non-essential
items. Educate others on how to grow their wealth and how to help others do
the same. And when needed help those that cannot help others. When was the
last time some poor Russian out in the middle of Siberia under the sole care
of a socialist USSR help another human recover from a natural disaster on
the other side of the planet. This country with its capitalism has done
this countless times and will continue to do so, so long as it stays
capitalist and Christian. Jubilee and socialism are not the same. One is
under the direct leadership of God and the other killed God as soon as it
took root nearly 500 years ago.

Before going further, please let me explain one thing. I do not like to
boast, just ask Dick Fischer. I do not like to explain how much I know in
my area of expertise, sorry Glenn (you are great in your field though). But
in this I will assure you, I spent my entire military career in Central
America, SouthEast Asia and parts of the world I cannot even say I've been.
I worked my entire time in Military Intelligence and speak Russian, Czeck,
Tagalog, Spanish, Some Korean, Some Thai and Some Hindi. In all that time
in so many countries and having spent so much time studying political
science and history just to understand what socialism was, is and what THEIR
plans are I can say without a doubt that the only thing in this world worse
than a neo nazi right winger is a socialist. Give me my freedom and let me
keep it. When I see someone in need I pray to God that I have something to
give them and that I am not empty handed because the goverment has chosen to
take everything from me in order to keep me and my fellow man oppressed.
Libre De Oppresso.

Don Perrett
Special Forces Communications and Intelligence

  -----Original Message-----
  From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Pim van Meurs
  Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 01:42
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Subject: Re: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

  You're focusing too much on the webpages. Let's focus on the issues such
as the capitalistic nature of Santa Claus destroying the religious natur of
Christmas. Or what about the Jubilee part? What reasons do we have to ignore
these teachings while subjecting ourselves to others? Do we get to pick and
chose our Biblical passages?

  People and churches may abuse the jubilee but the underlying idea seems
quite socialistic in nature namely the redistribution of wealth.
  I see the jubilee as something that is enacted by the people of faith.
Sounds like a great idea.

  The webpage I quoted 'objects' to accepting these biblical themes by
arguing that these jubliee movements are somehow unbiblical

  'We know of similar Jubilee movements which feel the need to overpower
existing churches and restructure them along an Old Testament pattern. At
times it means using deceit and force to take over the property to
redistribute the wealth in a socialist system."

  But are they right? Or just scared?

  "Matt \"Fritz\" Bergin" <fritziematt@yahoo.com> wrote:
    I don't see how Jesus could be said to support any type of economic
theory by reading the Bible besides that we should give to the poor and help
each other out when we see someone in need. I think this is a far more
meaningful way to help others. I'm not even sure what you mean by socialism
since there are so many different types its hard to keep track. Looking at
the website that you gave this looks like either a cult based on a few
verses in th e Bible or a really bad way to try to convince the religious
that socialism is Biblical. I would have to say that this part of the top of
the page "We know of similar Jubilee movements which feel the need to
overpower existing churches and restructure them along an Old Testament
pattern. At times it means using deceit and force to take over the property
to redistribute the wealth in a socialist system" I don't really see deciet
and force as something that Jesus taught but maybe you can point me to the
versus that support this.
     ~Matt

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Pim van Meurs
      To: asa@calvin.edu
      Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:43 PM
      Subject: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

      I listened to a radio program today with Lerner, author of "the Left
hand of God". What occurred to me is the irony of the political right being
the vanguards of religion when it is capitalism itself which undermines much
of religion and faith.
      A good example mentioned was Christmas, and while the right laments
that the secular leftists are causing the demise of this great holiday, it
seems far more likely that the materialistic nature of the Santa Claus event
is what really undermines the religious traditions of Christmas.

      The more I think about it the more I come to realize that Jesus was
quite a socialist in his days.

      And note how God in Leviti cus seems to support the redistribution of
wealth

      And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times
seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee
forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of jubile [sic] to
sound on the tenth day of the sev enth month, in the day of atonement shall
ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
      And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout
all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto
you. ...

      -- Leviticus 25: 8-10 (KJV)

      See http://www.piney.com/JubileJewish.html for an interesting
viewpoint on this. I wonder why the religious right is not focusing on these
aspects of the Bible?

      <quote>Let us look at the Bible's "Jubilee program" in more detail. It
is rooted in a sense of sacred time, sacred cycles of work-time and
rest-time that are defined partly by the earth and partly by society. These
cycles (on the model of Sabbath rest and contemplation, celebration and
material sharing on the seventh day) are sha ped by treating the seventh
year and the fiftieth year (the year after the seventh seventh year) as a
special time.
      Every seventh year, all debts are cancelled. The land is not subjected
to organized cultivation or harvest; whatever freely grows from it may in
that year be freely gathered by any family for its own food. What has been
stored before is shared.
      In the fiftieth year, the land rests again, and every family returns
to the equal share of productive land that it was allotted when
Israelitesociety began. The poor become equal, the rich give up the extra
wealth they had accumulated.
      And all this is done not by a central government's taxation or police
power, but by the direct action of each family, each clan, each tribe in its
own region.</quote>
      These are exciting issues for me to contemplate. Seems that it's time
to return religious faith to wher e it would find a much better home. Given
the policies of the right, I wonder if this is the place for us Christians
to find shelter?

      http://www.allaboutgod.com/truth-topics/jubilee.htm
Received on Tue Mar 7 05:32:20 2006