Re: Fw: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

Ok...first of all I don't think that charity is a good start its the best way to help people. Like I said before there are many reasons for poverty and I find it hard to believe that will all of the different people and problems out there that there is one large overarching cause of everything. First I've seen a lot of people who were happy, had a great job and a family but they started drinking more and more and lost thier family, their house, and all of their money and were living on the street. There was a drug addict on TV a while ago that was a really rich guy who got addicted on cocaine and lost everything. He had to break into his expensive apt. and sleep on the roof to make his friends think that he was still living the good life when in fact he had nothing. My friend from school made some bad choices in her life and ended up with a psychopath as a husband...she got divorced and has 5 kids to take care of now along with lawyer bills and court costs. There is a homeless guy here in my city that everyone knows who was an airplane mechanic who had a family but has a mental illness and is off his meds. He lives on the street with nothing but a cart full of junk that he collects. I would be willing to bet that many rich people have drug problems...probably more than the poor. My friend from college was influenced by another friend to start drinking and now he's an alcoholic who works for a large capitalist company and makes a lot of money. I don't see how giving these people money before would be any way to help them out of their problems before they happened. There are lots of reasons that people get into drugs or alcohol or get down on their luck. Maybe they are feeling depressed because they broke up with their girlfriend or boyfriend. Maybe they want to fit in with their friends. Maybe they think its the only way to have purpose in their lives. Maybe they think they are worthless and thats what they deserve. Maybe they have a lot of stress and they don't know how to deal with it the right way. Some police get addicted to drugs because their job is too stressful and they use them to stay awake and go to sleep when there is a shift change. I can probably think of a whole bunch of other reasons and I don't see how money is a factor in any of these. I don't know how to say it more clearly...maybe you should actually go meet people who have problems and are homeless or poor...my guess is that none of them would say that they are where they are because no one redistributed wealth to them. I live in MT and there are communes out here where people live by sharing everything and they still have problems. The problem isn't one simplistic thing like money...but if you really can't get off of the wealth as the key to everything idea then I can't say anything else that can make my position any more clear and this will just go in a pointless circle.

~Matt

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Pim van Meurs
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:47 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: The Left Hand of God or "is God a socialist"

  "Matt \"Fritz\" Bergin" <fritziematt@yahoo.com> wrote:
    I don't see any Biblical reason to have jubilee and I don't see how capitalism is destructive to faith. People are free to give what they want to others or the church in a capitalist society. If you want to redistribute your wealth to other people then by all means go ahead.

    PvM: Jubilee seems an interesting biblical concept. I guess we are free to accept and reject biblical teachings whenever appropriate? Why is capitalism destructive to faith? Because it focuses on materialism, which places more emphasis on possessions than on the religious relevance of Christmas for instance.

    Capitalism doesn't mean that no one can help or gets help. There are also other ways of giving besides money. Maybe you can give your time working to make a quilt for the homeless or work at a place that collects stuff that people want to give to the poor that they don't need anymore. My church has a program for giving your old vehicles to be fixed up and given to single parents and those that need vehicles.

    PvM: Those are good programs although they do not really address the underlying problem. Still charity is a good start.

    There are also many different food shelters and places that give poor people the things they need. I don't see why with all of this that we need to redistribute wealth.

    PvM: To those who have, the idea of having to redistribute wealth may seem 'scary' but look at it from the jubilee perspective and things may look quite differently.

    The other problem is that many poor people have lots of problems that giving them money will not solve like drug addictions, alcohol problems, no schooling, mental problems, or bad choices that they made.

    PvM: Sure but those are often more symptoms rather than causes. Inequity, poor schooling, poverty all add to their problems. Drugs, mental problems etc are seldomly direct causes.

    It probably seems like the problem is just money but its far more than that and I don't see how these socialist utopian solutions will solve the problem or help the people in need. These people need a more personal and real answers to their problems. Like in the case of the drug addict giving them money will not help them because they will just use it to further their addiction. I think we need to be more aware of their individual problems which a collectivism doesn't recognize.

    PvM: What if addiction is a symptom of poverty and redistribution could help alleviate these problems? Giving money to a drug addict is not going to help but giving opportunities to someone who may become a drug addict may be a solution.

    I always thought that Santa Claus was based on a real guy (Saint Nick) who gave gold to poor families...I don't remember the details. If Santa is a tradition that recognizes that then I see no problem with it. There are a lot of people that give in the holiday season to things like Toys for Tots and the Salvation Army. The whole point of Christmas and gifts is to give (as a way of recognizing God's gift to us)...but someone has to receive what you are giving...if thats materialistic then I don't know what to say.

    Indeed, the history of Saint Nick is hardly as materialistic as the holiday it has turned into. Look at the advertising, the hype, the amount of money, the pressure on parents to deliver... Christmas has turned into a major materialistic holiday where the meaning of Christmas or Santa Claus have been totally lost.

    What exactly is the religious right concentrating on anyway?
    PvM: Good question... What should they be concentrating on is an even better one.
    Is the religious right just a pawn in the hands of the political right? Should the religious ri ght abandon its foundations for political short term gain?
Received on Tue Mar 7 03:29:44 2006