Re: have we forgotten who the enemy is?

Michael wrote, "Vernon some of us are sick and tired of YEC distortion and
misrepresentation and your superspiritual hypocrisy accusing others of
denying Christ and not fighting against the devil. I dont need someone like
you who is blind to truth to point me to Ephesians 6."

This minor tirade hardly addresses the questions raised in my last posting.
Let me remind you of them.

(1) Let's begin with Yahya's assessment of "The Origin...". Would you say
this was _fair_? If not, for what reasons should he further apologise?

(2) In earlier posts I have suggested that 'methodological naturalism' has
now become a 'broken reed', for the very good reason that we now have
substantial evidence (which really should have come as no surprise to a
Christian!) that the _supernatural_ has, and does, encroach on the
_natural_. I therefore believe the title of Yahya's book, "The Dark Spell of
Darwinism", to be particularly apposite at this time. What do you think? Do
you believe he might well have 'hit the nail on the head'?

(3) You appear to exhibit a certain ambivalence toward Paul's solemn advice
to Christians, as it is succinctly expressed in Ephesians 6:10-18. Can you
please clarify your position in respect of this?

(4) It is clear to me that Jesus Christ was a creationist. I cite his words
(spoken through 'Father Abraham'), "If they hear not Moses..., neither will
they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:31). Having tied
your colours to the 'darwinian mast', you obviously have other ideas. So how
do you square your conscience? Is it just a matter of selectively ignoring
such statements?, or do you have genuine reasons for believing my simple
inference to be misguided?

These questions are surely not too hard for you, Michael. It would
undoubtedly further the cause of truth if you were to provide answers.

But to return to your statement: perhaps you would enlighten me with respect
to my alleged 'superspiritual hypocrisy' (sounds good, but what does it
mean?).

Vernon
www.otherbiblecode.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>; "Glenn Morton"
<glennmorton@entouch.net>; "'Lawrence Johnston'" <johnston@uidaho.edu>;
<asa@calvin.edu>; "'jack syme'" <drsyme@cablespeed.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: have we forgotten who the enemy is?

> Glenn
> Consider yourself rebuked!! Vernon some of us are sick and tired of YEC
> distortion and misrepresentation and your superspiritual hypocrisy
> accusing
> others of denying Christ and not fighting against the devil. I dont need
> someone like you who is blind to truth to point me to Ephesians 6.
>
> When YECs cease from distortion and name-calling I might begin to listen
> to
> them. I am afraid they are a bigger obstacle to the spreading of the
> Gospel
> than Richard Dawkins
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>
> To: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>; "'Lawrence Johnston'"
> <johnston@uidaho.edu>; <asa@calvin.edu>; "'jack syme'"
> <drsyme@cablespeed.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:00 AM
> Subject: Re: have we forgotten who the enemy is?
>
>
>> Glenn, are you really completely immune to my recent observations on the
> now
>> manifest frailty of the scientific enterprise - particularly as it
>> relates
>> to the progressive undermining of God's revealed word?
>>
>> Vernon
>> www.otherbiblecode.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
>> To: "'Lawrence Johnston'" <johnston@uidaho.edu>; <asa@calvin.edu>; "'jack
>> syme'" <drsyme@cablespeed.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:35 AM
>> Subject: RE: have we forgotten who the enemy is?
>>
>>
>> > Feb 17,2005
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
>> >> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Lawrence Johnston
>> >> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:52 AM
>> >> To: asa@calvin.edu; jack syme
>> >> Subject: Re: have we forgotten who the enemy is?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi, fellow Citizens of the Kingdom of God (and seekers!)
>> >>
>> >> I really appreciate Jack's starting this thread, in a very
>> >> revealing way.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jack Syme wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am not sure why the discussion on this list is always so negative
>> > against
>> >> both ID and YEC. IMO in the big picture, this battle is a minor one.
>
>> > The
>> >> most important belief that we all have, and share with our
>> > creationist
>> >> brothers, is the Gospel. Most evangelical Christians dont really
>> > care that
>> >> much about the creation/evolution issue, knowing Christ is much more
>> >> important.
>> >>
>> >> It seems to me that we are losing sight of the real enemy, which is
>> >> philosophical materialism, atheistic naturalism. We should be
>> > reaching out
>> >> to scientist non believers, and showing them that the Bible, and
>> > science are
>> >> compatible. This issue is more about apologetics than polemics.
>> >
>> > I will tell both of you why this issue is important. If you ever go on
>> > a
>> > field trip with geologists (real ones, not the ICR pseudo-rock docs)
>> > and
>> > listen to the geologist's comments about the creationists and what
>> > they
>> > teach, you will quickly find that it is almost impossible to share the
>> > gospel with these people because of the idiocy of the young-earth
>> > position. I have seen this type of situation. One geologist will say,
>> > "look at all those burrows, they were deposited as they are in one
>> > single year!" and everyone hoots and hollers, laughing. Some one will
>> > then chime in, "Halleluyah, right on brother!" More laughter. When a
>> > radio preacher comes on the radio saying false and slanderous things
>> > about geologist and biologists and how one can't be a christian and
>> > believe in evolution, the derision starts. "Hey can you believe how
>> > dumb
>> > you have to be to be a christian?" "Yeah, they are born with only a
>> > brainstem," "Yep, that is the religious part of the brain!" Such
>> > things make it very very difficult to share the gospel. Who wants to
>> > be as stupid as these YEC guys? Y'all live in your nice non-geological
>> > world and such things are mere abstractions to you. They are the
>> > reality I see.
>> >
>> > To you it is a minor thing. In my profession, YEC and even ID with some
>> > of their nonsense, are huge blocks to the gospel.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Fri Feb 18 17:50:25 2005