Re: Dick Fisher's "historical basis" remains no less doubtful

Dave Siemens wrote:

> You're in a Reformed pattern, not a Fisher pattern. Dick wants Adam to be
> historical, but about 7000 years ago, give or take a few thousand years.

My wants aren't important. Who cares what I want?

The Bible places Adam in the Neolithic period at the junction of rivers in
Mesopotamia where there was no trace of civilization prior to 7,000 years
ago. It took the technological advance of irrigation for this area to be
habitable. Genesis alludes to that, "And a river went out of Eden to water
the garden ..." (Gen.2:10).

Rivers don't water anything. Rain falls on the ground and trickles into
streams that flow into rivers and empty into the sea. You can't water your
crops just living next to a river. Ezekiel 1:1 speaks of the "river Chebar"
in Babylon. The only river in that area is the Euphrates. Look at a map.
The river Ezekiel speaks about is an irrigation canal. They named them in
those days.

The same thing holds true in Genesis 2. Especially when you consider that
"edin" is a Sumerian/Accadian word for "desert." So a canal went out of the
desert to water the garden. And considering that Eridu is the likely home
of Adam, this is true. Eridu was located on the Persian Gulf where they
could fish and was irrigated by canal where they had fresh water for
livestock and crops. Even the word Eridu persists in our language. It is
our word "arid" which pertains to a desert.

> This requires, among other things, modifying Genesis 3:20 from "mother of
> all living" to "mother of the few, excluding most of the Mesopotamians
> and all the inhabitants of other parts of earth at the time, and all
> their descendants, who must be far more numerous than the Cainites and
> Sethites."

Eve was the mother of all for whom the Pentateuch was intended and given.
If you read a book on Viking history, how would you think it was your
history if you weren't a Viking?

And further, "all" in Hebrew can mean "few." As in "all my bones are out of
joint" ((Psa. 22:14).

> The common understanding is that Adam's sin is inherited by
> his descendants. Dick has sin beginning with Adam (strictly unknown
> before) but passed to at least all the people living at the time of
> Adam's "creation." If Adam's sin is so transmitted (the alternative is
> that only direct descendants of Adam are eligible for redemption--or need
> it), then Christ's redemption should be similarly transmitted to all
> alive at the time of the crucifixion.

Substitute "available" for "transmitted" in that last sentence. Adam made
all men accountable. You could ask how Adam made American Indians
accountable living 7,000 years ago. But you could ask how could they be
saved 2,000 years ago. And the answer might be the same, through the
transmission of knowledge.

Christ alludes to that. This can be inferred from Matthew 23:15, "Woe unto
you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make
one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of
hell than yourselves."

When one outside the Jewish faith was brought to the knowledge of God, he
became accountable. Because of false teaching, he was condemned.

> Yes, you can try to paper over the problems that Dick's approach
> to making Genesis 1-11 historical (with a subjectively revised text), but
> every patch causes additional problems. For example, why did God bring
> the animals by for naming and announce that there was no adequate help
> for Adam among them when there were lots of women just outside of the
> boundaries of Eden?

Adam was endowed with long life, living to 930 years old. The local
inhabitants died before the age of fifty. That's one reason. But that
doesn't mean he didn't look. When Adam receives his mate he announces,
"This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh ..." The word "now" is
the Hebrew happa'am usually translated "now at length" or "at last."

Dick Fischer - Genesis Proclaimed Association
Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
www.genesisproclaimed.org
Received on Sun Nov 14 16:19:02 2004