My point misunderstood (was Re: Clarification -- Re: Dawkins dissembles? )

From: Dr. Blake Nelson (bnelson301@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Jul 15 2003 - 16:41:59 EDT

  • Next message: RFaussette@aol.com: "Re: My point misunderstood (was Re: Clarification -- Re: Dawkins dissembles? )"

    Howard, sorry you missed my point, I have tried to
    restate it more clearly below.

    --- "Howard J. Van Till" <hvantill@chartermi.net>
    wrote:
    (SNIP)
    > 1. Dawkins/Dennett: Higher intelligence among NAS
    > membership.
    >
    > 2. Scott Jorgenson (with agreement from Blake
    > Nelson): The human hubris that
    > often accompanies praise for intellectual
    > accomplishment.

    Actually, *my* point was entirely different. People
    who enter certain fields tend to come from particular
    backgrounds, they self-select. A lot of NAS members
    are academics, choosing to be an academic is another
    self-selection method that again tends toward
    particular backgrounds (e.g., Watson going into
    science for the express purpose of bashing religion).
    Once in the academic millieu, powerful socialization
    forces are brought to bear on whatever belief system
    is there to begin with to shape it toward peer beliefs
    both in graduate school and after.

    So, my point is not at all about intellectual hubris,
    although sometimes that accompanies academics (being
    one) IMHO. ;)
     
    > 3. Yet another possibility: Intelligent persons who
    > are well acquainted with
    > what the sciences have learned about the
    > evolutionary history of the
    > universe see that the majority of Christians choose
    > to ignore that
    > scientific evidence and cling to some form of
    > episodic creationism
    > (entailing the rejection of the RFEP, and asserting
    > that at least some life
    > forms required episodes of form-conferring
    > supernatural intervention to
    > actualize). Given their informed judgment regarding
    > the credibility of the
    > scientific concept of evolution, and given that the
    > example set by the
    > majority of Christian theists entails a rejection of
    > that informed judgment,
    > these intelligent and well-informed persons are less
    > inclined to join with
    > the theists.

    Sure, but this is just ignorance on the part of the
    person using some christians to tar the whole belief
    system and it is somewhat lazy not to follow up on
    one's prejudices (which the opinion you described
    above is if one believes it applies to all
    christians.)

    > There was a time when I joined the chorus of persons
    > who were quick to
    > demonize those awful atheists as the epitome of
    > stubborn arrogance and
    > extreme hubris. Perhaps it is now time to listen
    > more respectfully to learn
    > what they themselves would say. It's just possible
    > that their choices have
    > been made thoughtfully, humbly, and on the basis of
    > warranted
    > considerations.

    I don't demonize atheists, per se, but many --
    P.Atkins and R.Dawkins -- spring to mind are so
    apparently ignorant about religious belief and so
    virulently antagonistic, that it is hard to believe
    their choices were made humbly (if they were, they
    seem to have gotten over that impulse). And I do read
    what they say. Just as I am taken aback at the
    misrepresentation that YECers undertake, I am taken
    aback by some of the things atheists say, because in
    both cases they make at least inferentially dishonest
    statements.

    By the way, as Michael Ruse (no theist) wonderfully
    said about Richard Dawkins at one of the CTNS
    co-sponsored Vatican conferences (I think the video is
    somehwere on the counterbalance.org website), "he's
    pig ignorant about theology" (or something to that
    effect). Having read Dawkins extensively, I believe
    Ruse is right, Dawkins appears to be pig ignorant
    about christian theology.

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