From: Jim Eisele (jeisele@starpower.net)
Date: Mon Nov 04 2002 - 18:04:59 EST
Hi Dick,
Thanks for your thorough response.
>If the word "shortly" is giving you heartburn, I am not sure I would give
>up my faith on the basis of a single word. In a 15 billion year old
>universe, 2000 years isn't a big chunk.
You do very thorough work and don't "lie" like other Christians.
But, you start with the belief that the Bible is true and fit the
evidence to that. Consider the flip side:
Jesus was supposed to come back. He didn't. Christianity became
mythology. If you don't start with the assumption that the Bible
is the inerrant, historical Word of God, which conclusion do you
reach? You are imposing 19th-20th century knowledge on 1st century
text. Don't get me wrong. Living forever "sounds kind of cool."
The saving grace of Christianity is that it is a belief. No matter
how much I may want to live forever (despite all of the earthly sacrifices
required for that - it is all starting to seem like such a strange
belief system) I can't be a Christian if the story doesn't add up.
>A "generation" may be thought of as 30-33 years. But the Greek
>ghen-eh-ah' is derived from ghen'-os meaning a tribe or "nation," and may
>have been the original word changed by a scribal glitch or even the
>intended meaning of the phrase just as it was written. And the nation of
>Israel has not passed away.
God allowed a word with a completely different meaning that completely
destroys Christ's credibility to become part of the sacred text? Be
careful that you're not worshipping a demon (not that I believe in
demons and goblins and spooks).
>The sun hasn't darkened and the stars are still in heaven, so the Son of
>man isn't due the way I read it.
>Again, we haven't seen these "great signs," and we should see these first
>before the second coming.
The more logical answer is that it is simply a false prophecy. Jesus
predicted these things would happen within a generation.
>True. All were martyred but John as far as we know. So the disciples knew
>they would physically die before the second coming. And Christ knew they
>would be martyred.
They really believed Jesus was coming back. False hope is an ugly thing.
BTW, my agnostic list is skeptical about the value of evidence of these
"martyrdoms". I don't see it as a central point. But one need look no
further than your local YEC leader to see how Christians can acquire a
warped sense of reality if they think it fill further their cause.
At one time I thought that this evidence was very convincing - before I
studied the much better fitting "mythology of Jesus created when he failed
to return" scenario.
>>I used to equate Christianity with people who were honest truth-seekers.
>Some still are, Jim.
As long as the inerrant historicity of the Bible isn't compromised, at
least :-)
>>I guess I've grown up.
>Perhaps you've just reached an awkward age.
Catholic to born again YEC to day-ager to agnostic. Yeah, the search for
the truth can be awkward. You have to admit you're wrong sometimes.
But, once you admit you are wrong, you gain a tremendous sense of freedom.
But keep sending those "pro eternal life" arguments my way. It's a great
idea. Real effective at winning converts :-) Especially with a little
threat of hell thrown in for good measure :-)
Jim Eisele
Genesis in Question
http://genesisinquestion.org
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