[Fwd: Griffin #2]

From: Lucy Masters (masters@cox-internet.com)
Date: Wed May 23 2001 - 17:30:09 EDT

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    John wrote:

    "The main reason ... is ... the equation of religion with
    supernaturalism and the equation of science ...with a materialistic
    version of scientific naturalism" (pg xv).

    Lucy replies:

    You guys are .....way.....beyond me in philosophy, but here is my
    question from the standpoint of psychology (read: observations of human
    behavior and the "way" people "figure things out."): I wonder if the
    above equation remains valid in our age of rapid scientific
    advancement. It has been my *observation* that people categorize things
    or events as "supernatural" when they DO NOT understand them (it must be
    God), and they categorize things as "natural" when they DO understand
    them (it isn't God; it's just nature). Therefore, I do not see science
    as "destroying God," but I do see people moving away from the idea of
    God as science advances simply because it explains more things and
    events and our current bifurcation does not allow the presence of God in
    things we understand.

    I see a key issue with the future of Christianity resting with the idea
    of omnipresence. In other words, it should not matter whether something
    is understood or not, materialistic or unseen, apparently of design or
    of no design. I have always wondered why God is excluded from the
    natural world, materialism, and so on. A small case in point: I live
    in an EXTREMELY conservative part of the U.S., and I remember vividly
    when doctors first started using fiber optics on pregnant women down at
    the hospital. People were literally ranting and raving, and preachers
    were screaming in the churches. The problem? It seems folks came to
    the conclusion that the nine month pregnancy process was "God's miracle"
    and had to remain a big mystery. They actually believed that if we came
    to UNDERSTAND exactly what happened inside the womb during that process,
    that God would no longer be involved! They believed that by
    understanding, people would no longer recognize the process as a
    miracle. I do not have the exact quote (sorry), but I remember William
    F. Buckley, Jr. expressing the same idea in a debate he did on
    television against Eugenie Scott et al. He said something to the effect
    of, "We must have mysteries. We must not attempt to answer all
    questions scientifically. It is the great mysteries of life that keep
    our faith in God."

    If this point is valid, and it may be, then what a shame. What kind of
    thinking have we built into Christianity that mandates ignorance in
    order to maintain faith in God? Why must religion be associated ONLY
    with the supernatural? Why not the natural, too?

    Lucy


    attached mail follows:


    Continuing notes on Griffin's book.

    GRIFFIN2.TXT

    2. Notes on the PREFACE (3 pages)

    "The central question of this book is simply whether there is anything
    essential to science that is in conflict with any beliefs essential to
    vital religion, especially theistic religion. My answer is No, but the
    dominant answer has been Yes." (pg xv).

    "The main reason ... is ... the equation of religion with supernaturalism
    and the equation of science ...with a materialistic version of scientific
    naturalism" (pg xv).

    Griffin defines two terms, "naturalism(sam)" and "naturalism(ns). The
    first of these is maximal naturalism; the second minimal naturalism.
    These words appear to be close to, but not quite synonymous with
    metaphysical naturalism and methodological naturalism. Almost everyone,
    Griffin claims, understands scientific naturalism as naturalism(sam).
    Later on in the book he cites about two dozen authorities as evidence for
    his use of "almost everyone" in the above. It is, I think, because
    Bultmann understood naturalism this way, that his resulting liberal
    theology became so irrelevant to most of the religious community.

    However, Griffin asserts, naturalism(ns) is fully compatible with
    theistic religion, if that religion does not require a supernaturalistic
    version of theism. The book argues this thesis. It is dedicated to the
    thinkers at CTNS and the Templeton Foundation, to Bob Russell and Ian
    Barbour, and also to Jack Haught and Ted Peters. Griffin is a professor
    of the Philosophy of Religion & Theology at Claremont.

    End Preface notes.

    Burgy (John Burgeson)

    www.burgy.50megs.com



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