Re: Miracles vs. "natural law" (Formerly: Creation Ex Nihilio andother journals)

From: Moorad Alexanian (alexanian@uncwil.edu)
Date: Wed Jan 10 2001 - 15:08:15 EST

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    One ought to distinguish the mathematical laws that we use to describe
    nature, actually models of nature, and the real thing. The real thing is
    governed by a sovereign God and man can never really predict what will
    happen. It is only in experimental science where man has a handle on the
    data. In questions of origins and observational sciences man is not on as
    solid ground as when he can make repetitive experiments. All we can do is
    to say what our models predict and hope for the best. Moorad

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Brian T. Greuel <bgreuel@jbu.edu>
    To: Allen Roy <allenroy@peoplepc.com>
    Cc: asa@calvin.edu <asa@calvin.edu>
    Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 1:19 PM
    Subject: Re: Miracles vs. "natural law" (Formerly: Creation Ex Nihilio
    andother journals)

    >Allen,
    >
    >Are you suggesting that God only works miracles through overt violations of
    the
    >natural laws that He created? Even with that definition, it seems to me
    that
    >God's intervention to alter the path of a single asteroid (or cluster of
    >asteroids) so that it strikes the earth constitutes a violation of natural
    >law--i.e. a miracle. Whether you invoke the hand of God moving the
    asteroids
    >out of their normal path or have God suddenly zap a large body into
    existence to
    >exert force on the asteroids so that they deviate from their normal path,
    either
    >way you're talking about a violation of natural law.
    >
    >I would submit, however, that God also works "miracles" by making certain
    >low-probability "random" events (from a "naturalistic" point of view)
    happen at
    >specific times in order to accomplish His purposes. In other words, I
    believe
    >that God can perform miracles without appearing to violate the very natural
    laws
    >that He created. The key is the timing of the events.
    >
    >--Brian Greuel
    >
    >
    >Allen Roy wrote:
    >
    >> From: Glenn Morton <glenn.morton@btinternet.com>
    >> > But the YEC pots are telling God what he should do. They are telling
    him
    >> > that he had to have a natural explanation (see Allen Roy's views of the
    >> > flood over the past few days, and thus they are saying that God didn't
    >> > intervene in Noah's flood). ......
    >>
    >> I have been saying that the events of the flood followed the natural laws
    >> which God invented. I believe that the flood was a catastrophe that was
    >> initiated by God in causing a string or large cluster of asteroids to
    strike
    >> the earth. God directed and or altered the path of the asteroid's orbit
    to
    >> intersect with the orbit of the earth. The earth (and moon) passed
    through
    >> the asteroid cluster resulting in many impacts in quick succession for a
    >> period of time (the Bible indicates 150 days). The natural results,
    within
    >> the laws of nature as invented by God, would be a global catastrophe
    >> consisting of thousands of events. After the last of the impacts, the
    globe
    >> will slowly equal equilibrium and it will again become inhabitable.
    >>
    >> The Bible does not call the Flood a miracle, so why should we?
    >>
    >> Allen
    >



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