Hi Michael,
>-----Original Message-----
>From: M.B.Roberts [mailto:topper@robertschirk.u-net.com]
>Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:30 PM
>To: Glenn Morton; asa@calvin.edu
>Subject: Re: Like the poor, the YECS will be with you always
>
>
>Dear Glenn
>
>Your posting of 29 Oct describes Penn who was active and inlfeuntial in the
>1820s 30s and 40s, but does not mention the 1860s.
I would contend that the fact that Miller still felt the need to mention him
by name, when he didn't mention others by name, is an indication of his
influence as late as 1857 which isn't far from 1860.
>By then the Anti-geologists were on the wain if not vitually
>extinct and few
>came out with YEC arguments.
You repeat what you said but seem to miss the data I presented. Is there a
problem here? One must not confuse those who publish, with the believes of
the common people. Common people rarely publish anything.
>Hugh Miller's wonderful chapter on Antigeologists was written in c1856
>especiall y for the Testimony of the Rocks and not given as a lecture and
>can be seen as the coup de grace on a silly chapter. when you look at the
>dates of anti-geologists most were in the 20s and 30s and declined after
>1845 with few in the 1850s. I have nt yet found one after 1850 hence my
>comments about only 6 in 1860.
If you are talking about those in the scientific field, then you have
something. but if you are talking about the public in general, which I infer
you were from your statement that evangelicals were not YEC in significant
proportions prior to The Genesis Flood, then you are wrong. You missed the
mention of the guy who lectured in 1853 in Edinburgh. You missed the book
written and published by the anonymous clergy in the 1850s. 1853 is long
after when you said they had declined. And Ellen White was active throughout
this period.
>I have read dozens of attacks on Darwin and Essays and reviews and
>find that
>every one is old earth - except BW Newton.
I think you are forgetting a very very important point with YECs. In
general, they come from the lesser educated classes and thus are less likely
to leave a publication record.
>
>A universal Flood was held by many old earthers into the 1840s including
>William Buckland. The issues of old earth and universal flood are not the
>same.
Sorry, according to Nicolaas Rupke (a former YEC who invented the polystrate
fossil argument), Buckland recanted in 1836. Sedgwick recanted in 1831.
“Around this time, too, the opposition to diluvialism from within the
geological community was forcefully expressed by Lyell in his Principles of
Geology (1830-3), in which he attempted to explain geological change by
reference to causes now in operation. In addition during the early 1830s,
successive presidents of the Geological Society of London dissociated
themselves from diluvialism. These recantations culminated in Buckland’s
own abandonment of the diluvial theory in his Bridgewater Treatise (1836),
where he no longer attributed any of the diluvial phenomena to the biblical
deluge.” Nicolaas Rupke, The Great Chain of History, (Oxford: Clarendon
Press, 1983), p. 81
But I would agree that many of the laity held to a global flood even today.
>
>I was not considering later writings, many of which are on my shelves.
>Howorth 1887 was an old earther I believe
>
>Mccready Price was turn of the century so too late for my 1860 YEC census.
>
>Now as Glenn now lives the right side of the pond he will find
>that YECs are
>rarer here than the USA from the late 19C
I am trying to find some of the works of the authors I mentioned. I have
emailed a few book dealers here in the UK asking about them but so far no
response. Do you know any where one might find such books?
>
>There is much work needed on this whole area.
agreed. But most of the YEC works are going to be obscure, very obscure.
Most Librarians, when cleaning off their shelves are not likely to find
these books worth keeping which makes it more difficult to find them. Try
to find some of the newer YEC books in public libraries!
>
>Most impoortant is to see that YEC has always been a minority
>outlook within
>the Christian churches, and that it is more signiificant now than it ever
>was in the past.
I simply don't agree with this at least as far as the US is concerned. I
doubt that the farmers of the agricultural and southern states in 1860-1900
were old-earth people. You know your country better than I do.
glenn
see http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
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