Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada

From: Jim Armstrong (jarmstro@qwest.net)
Date: Thu Nov 06 2003 - 12:11:01 EST

  • Next message: Denyse O'Leary: "Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada"

    ...speaking of information loss! JimA

    Michael Roberts wrote:

    > WHAT IS DARWINISM?
    >
    > The whole problem with Denyse's interviews and the ISCID article is
    > that it puts up Darwinism as a strawman. I dont know what Darwinism is
    > as it has as many definitions as there are people. Of course, this
    > approach is to retain the big tent of ID.
    >
    > It also prevents us from considering non-reductionist and
    > non-atheistic and non-chance views of evolution .
    >
    > Before we can consider all this;
    >
    > What is the status of the age of the earth and the fossil succession
    > over time?
    > Any discussion which does not deal with that is like Hamlet without
    > the Prince of Denmark
    >
    > What is chance and natural selection?
    >
    > A lot of confusion is caused by the loose use of terms such as chance,
    > Darwinism and Naturalism.
    >
    > Michael
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Gary Collins <mailto:gwcollins@algol.co.uk>
    > To: asa@lists.calvin.edu <mailto:asa@lists.calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:45 AM
    > Subject: Re: asa-digest V1 #3761
    >
    > --Original Message Text---
    > From: asa-digest
    > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:20:01 -0500
    >
    > Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:51:08 -0500
    > From: "Denyse O'Leary" <oleary@sympatico.ca
    > <mailto:oleary@sympatico.ca>>
    > Subject: Re: Intelligent design controversy in Canada
    >
    > List members may be interested in an online interview with Kirk
    > Dunston
    > of the New Scholars Society in Canada, where he talks about
    > intelligent
    > design, Darwinian evolution, and genome mapping. The controversy
    > is only
    > now spreading to Canada.
    >
    > One of his comments:
    >
    > http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/031023evolution
    >
    > Natural processes, over the history of the universe, have the
    > potential
    > to produce up to 70 bits of information. Unfortunately, just one,
    > average 300-residue protein requires about 500 bits to encode. The
    > simplest theoretical life form would need somewhere in the
    > neighbourhood
    > of 250 protein-coding genes.
    >
    > There is also an interview with me at
    >
    > http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/031030evolution
    >
    >
    >
    > One of my comments: I only discovered how much trouble Darwinism
    > was in
    > when I took a year out of my life -- late 2002 to late 2003 -- to
    > study
    > the situation. I was appalled. Darwinism has nothing like the support
    > that we are accustomed to for theories in physics or chemistry.
    >
    > Denyse
    >
    > I read these articles - thanks. One thing I was hoping to find,
    > but didn't,
    > is some justification for the mysterious figure of 70 bits of
    > information,
    > which appears as though it is a "given" for some reason.
    >
    > I also recently came across an interesting essay by William Hasker,
    > entitled "How not to be a Reductivist." He quotes Thomas Nagel, who
    > 'admits quite candidly,
    > I hope there is no God! I dont want there to be a God; I dont want
    > the
    > universe to be like that'
    > as saying,
    >
    > "My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare
    > condition and that it is
    > responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our
    > time. One of the
    > tendencies it supports is the ludicrous overuse of evolutionary
    > biology to explain
    > everything about life, including everything about the human mind.
    > Darwin enabled
    > modern secular culture to heave a great collective sigh of relief,
    > by apparently providing
    > a way to eliminate purpose, meaning, and design as fundamental
    > features of the world.
    > Instead they become epiphenomena, generated incidentally by a
    > process that can be
    > entirely explained by the operation of the nonteleological laws of
    > physics on the material
    > of which we and our environments are all composed."
    >
    > and adds,
    > "Nagel himself, even though he shares in the cosmic authority
    > problem, strenuously resists this
    > facile appeal to Darwinism."
    >
    > The whole essay can be found at
    > http://www.iscid.org/papers/Hasker_NonReductivism_103103.pdf
    >
    > /Gary
    >



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