----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Morton" <glenn.morton@btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: deception in perception
Jay, What makes you think that Lucifer isn't deceiving you about what your
> read in Deuteronomy 13? With that great Father of Lies around, are you
sure
> he isn't deceiving your eyes right now? If you are sure you are reading
the
> correct words, how are you sure?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----Jay replied:
>I must trust the Spirit of the Lord living in me to guide me toward truth with a still, quiet voice.
Agreed, but if the Devil is so deceptive, and he appears as an angel of light, how can you be sure you are hearing the right voice? The point is, Jay, that without allowing observational data to be real, you have no epistemological basis for believing that we know what the Bible says! Sense data brings us both the data of science and the words of scripture.Sense data must be real or it is quite possible that what the Apostles saw is also a deception! You have a self-defeating epistemology.
>I am just asking that those of you who buy the current macroevolutional, old earth hypothesis to maintain the same kind of skepticism for >these concepts that you do for the seven days of creation.
Jay, having published 27 young-earth items in the CRSQ, having been a committed young-earth, global flood creationist, I did have skepticism about evolution and the old earth hypothesis. The problem is that none of the scientific data supported the YEC position. IfI can't trust my senses to tell me the truth, then I can't trust what my senses tell me about the Bible either. And if I can't trust that, then I am indeed lost without hope of finding out the truth. Your position leads to exactly that puzzlement. You can't ever, in your heart of hearts, be sure of who is talking to you.
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm for lots of creation/evolution information anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\ personal stories of struggle
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C23287.694812A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV> Jay Willingham = [mailto:jaywillingham@cfl.rr.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:27 AM<BR><B>To:</B> ASA; Glenn=20 Morton<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: deception in perception<BR><BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- = </FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From: "Glenn Morton" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:glenn.morton@btinternet.com">glenn.morton@btinternet.com</= A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Subject: RE: deception in=20 perception</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jay, What makes you think that Lucifer = isn't=20 deceiving you about what your<BR>> read in Deuteronomy 13? With = that=20 great Father of Lies around, are you sure<BR>> he isn't deceiving = your eyes=20 right now? If you are sure you are reading the<BR>> correct words, = how are=20 you sure?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> <HR> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D620170103-24072002>Jay=20 replied:</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN=20 class=3D620170103-24072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D620170103-24072002></SPAN><FONT = size=3D2>>I=20 must trust the Spirit of the Lord living in me to guide me toward truth = with a=20 still, quiet voice.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D620170103-24072002>Agreed, but if the Devil is so deceptive, and = he=20 appears as an angel of light, how can you be sure you are hearing the = right=20 voice? The point is, Jay, that without allowing observational data = to be=20 real, you have no epistemological basis for believing that we know what = the=20 Bible says! Sense data brings us both the data of science and the = words of=20 scripture.Sense data must be real or it is quite possible that what the = Apostles=20 saw is also a deception! You have a self-defeating=20 epistemology.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D620170103-24072002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D620170103-24072002></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>>I am just=20 asking that those of you who buy the current macroevolutional, old earth =
hypothesis to maintain the same kind of skepticism for </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20 class=3D620170103-24072002></SPAN>>these concepts that you do = for the=20 seven days of creation.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D620170103-24072002>Jay,=20 having published 27 young-earth items in the CRSQ, having been a = committed=20 young-earth, global flood creationist, I did have skepticism about = evolution and=20 the old earth hypothesis. The problem is that none of the scientific = data=20 supported the YEC position. IfI can't trust my senses to tell me = the=20 truth, then I can't trust what my senses tell me about the Bible = either. =20 And if I can't trust that, then I am indeed lost without hope of finding = out the=20 truth. Your position leads to exactly that puzzlement. You = can't=20 ever, in your heart of hearts, be sure of who is talking to you.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>glenn<BR><BR>see <A=20 href=3D"http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm"=20 target=3D_blank>http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm><BR>f= or lots=20 of creation/evolution=20 information<BR>anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\<BR>personal = stories=20 of struggle</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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