-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Sondra Brasile
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:59 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Christian? On what basis?
Dear List,
I was wondering how some of you can disprove every foundation of faith and
still believe? Does this mean you have even more faith than the next guy who
believes, say; the Bible has some truth to it? Every day I spend hours
reading through the posts from this group and heaven forbid I miss a day or
longer, I spend an entire day!
Shuan wrote:
Well, it ain't easy:)
These are the things I have learned from this list:
The Bible should be filed under science fiction, or fiction at best.
Shuan wrote:
Believe it or not, some portions of the Bible have always been accepted as
fiction, or at least symbolic. Nobody, even the most die hard literalist,
interprets Revelation literally.Jonah and Job can be seen as inspired
fiction without being a threat to anyone's faith. OTOH, even quite liberal
types agree that there is a lot of historical content to the Bible. They
just think it is less than some conservatives do.
The flood never happened or at least not nearly the way I learned it
happened...which was; it was an event like never happened before or since.
According to what I learn on here, it is more likely a little worse than
what has happened in Texas.
I wasn't made in the image of God, I was evolved from another completely
different species, which leaves me with a bit of a problem about how I can
hope to have received an immortal soul somewhere in the process. Where and
when did we become more important to God than, say our predecessor or
predecessors? What, then makes me any different than the animals in the zoo?
Now, where do morals and ethics fit in?
Shuan wrote:
Now that is the question. Sondra, its not your great grandma's Bible any
more. You may wish it was ( I wish it was). Back in olden times, it was easy
to believe in a six thousand year old universe, a solid sky, a poof type of
creation with all living things created at once, man being created by
animation of a clay doll, A global flood that wiped out all the animals but
left the plants untouched, all languages originating out of a single
incident, etc.
Since then, modern science has happened, biblical scholarship has happened,
and modern philosophy has happened. WE now have to live in a modern world
where all or most of those things are unbelievable. People on this list are
trying to work out how to have faith in the modern world. Its not easy. But
we can't go back to the past
That the people in the Bible aren't even who they say they are and they
speak with no authority whatsoever, just poetry, conjecture, folktales,
etc....
How am I supposed to believe that Jesus existed? That he was crucified? That
he rose again and that I can be saved, and what am I to be saved FROM? If
the rest is just folk tales, what about Hell? What about Satan? Fairytales
too? How can I spread these ridiculous stories throughout all the world
based on a mythological mission to do so? Explain to me why I should believe
one iota of it when all of you claim you have 'scientific evidence' that it
is all questionable if not proven completely wrong.
Shuan wrote:
There is still pretty good historical evidence about Jesus and many things
in the Bible. Unfortunately, we spend an inordinate amount of time
discussing the hard stuff. This is a safe place where we can discuss the
hard stuff, without atheists around to jeer us. We should probably discuss
more of the easy , positive stuff.
This is by no means a complete report on the things I have read on this
list, I'm sure there are numerous other myths I have been taught that have
been proven wrong. Every day I can't wait to read about the next myth I have
believed, brought under fire and sunk. In all your fields of science and
"reason" has any one of you proven that one single thing about the Bible or
anything related is true? How can any of you remain Christian's when the rug
is repeatedly pulled out from under it time and time again?
This list is like a scientific game of family feud, the host says, "and the
data says?" DING...."it's a hoax!" But what are you guys still clinging to?
You make a person feel mentally ill for believing in such bunk, but you
yourselves call yourselves Christians, I don't get it.
The thing I'm banking on are the things you will never be able to
scientifically prove, or even claim to prove with any credibility. For
instance, I have dreams that come true. Scientifically explain THAT one to
me! How can I know the future before it has happened? Doesn't this go
against "science" do any of you have any theories on how I can dream about
things that haven't happened yet? Like Daniel's predictions, they don't
become prophetic until it happens in real life, I am just beginning to
recognise them as prophetic BEFORE they happen. I used to just ponder them
until they happened.
Please, please, please, convince me that there is a rational, scientific
explanation for them and every other "miraculous" event I have ever
experienced because I've already stopped putting any faith in reading the
Bible since it's so innacurate, now I would like to go all the way and
totally rule out any existance of God at all. Just think No God, no
punishment, no rules, no morals, I can stop this useless waste of half my
life trying to please a God that doesn't exist and store up treasures in a
place that doesn't exist. Besides, I'm only an animal, and my instincts say,
if it feels good, do it.
I guess after blowing off that steam; what the heck keeps you guys
professing to be Christian's when you have the data to prove that the basic
foundations of 'our' faith are a joke?
Shuan wrote:
Blowing off steam is good. I do it myself sometimes. In the end , though,
there are two choices:one, take a mental trip back into the past. That's
the fundamentalist answer, and you are welcome to it. The other is the
difficult, frustrating , but rewarding task of trying to work out your
salvation in the modern world. That's what I, and most people on the list
are trying to do.
Gaining weight(unfortunately!),
Shuan
Wearing thin,
Sondra
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