justified & sinner (Was Re: Inerrancy)

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Fri Jul 12 2002 - 08:36:56 EDT

  • Next message: george murphy: "YHWH (Was Re: Scripture: Intrusion Ethics)"

    John Burgeson wrote:

    > Jan wrote: "As human beings there is no second of our day which is not
    > stained with sin. "Total depravity" means that every moment of our day is
    > full of sin, which means that no theory we have is without sin."
    >
    > I know Jan really really believes this. It seems to me like nonsense. What
    > do people from other faith communities think?

             The Lutheran view (i.e., the right one :)) is that unregenerate human
    beings are completely incapable of genuine faith in God, and that therefore
    everything that they do is permeated with sin, "for whatever does not proceed
    from faith is sin" (Rom.14:23). This does not mean that acts which are
    outwardly in accord with the law are not possible, but that their motivation
    is not that the sinner "fears, loves, & trusts in God above all things."
             However, the term "total depravity" is problematic for it suggests
    that there is absolutely nothing good about unregenerate humanity at all.
    This would effectively mean that such people are no longer creatures of God or
    (to use older language) that they are creatures of Satan, something suggestive
    of the Manichaean heresy. Such an idea was condemned in the 1st Article of
    the Formula of Concord.
             Luther & the Lutheran tradition have held that even after one has been
    brought to faith by the Holy Spirit sin remains in the person. Luther's
    statement is that the Christian is simul justus et peccator - at the same time
    justified and sinner. This is an idea that other Christians have often had
    problems with - it was one of the stickier points in the discussions leading
    to the recent Lutheran-Roman Catholic declaration on justification. It seems
    to me, however, to have pretty solid support in Romans 7 and in the experience
    of most Christians if they reflect on it honestly.
             I'm not sure what to make of the statement that "no theory we have is
    without sin." Heisenberg & Schroedinger, like all of us, were sinners, but
    where is the sin in quantum mechanics?

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    "The Science-Theology Interface"



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Jul 12 2002 - 11:56:19 EDT