Hi Jay,
>-----Original Message-----
>From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
>Behalf Of Jay Willingham
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 1:29 PM
>
>If light and time are created things, then God may have created them as =
>they are observed. =20
>
>So, too, with isotope decay rates and levels of decay. =20
>
>God's creation of something suddenly in a certain form is not deceptive.
Let's say I create an organization which apparently pays me $2000 per month
on a $20 dollar investment. Obviously in order to keep this thing going I
have to re-circulate the $2000 every month back to the organization. I tell
some friends about it. They come to the logical conclusion that this is an
investment they want into and they beg me to take their money. If I take
their money and that of their friends, and use this later money to pay off
the earlier investors are you saying I wouldn't be deceptive? THis is
analogous to God created this system in which everything appears to be one
way but really it is another. You are a lawyer. My wife is a paralegal, my
father-in-law and brother-in-law are lawyers. I don't think they would tell
me that if I take their money, I am not guilty of fraud!
>
>Your concept is that if our empirical observations and consequent =
>expectations of beginnings and endings do not mesh with statements made =
>in the Bible, than either the Bible is wrong or God is deceiving us.
>
>A few points:
>
>We do not see with God's eyes.
>
>We see things dimly, not as they are.
>
>The father of all lies is actively deceiving us all the time and can =
>show us whatever he wants whenever he wants.
If all of this is true, Jay, how can you be sure that the Father of Lies
isn't making you think you read one thing on the pages of the Bible when in
fact the Bible says something entirely different? If Satan is so powerful
to deceive our senses, then what limits him from deceiving our senses when
we read about the plan of salvation?
>
>As to Peking Man, has Frank Brown ever found the missing fossils? =20
There were an excellent set of casts made of the fossils which still exist.
It is well known that the original fossils were lost in World War II. Lots
of things were lost or destroyed in WWII yet I don't hear creationists
claiming that those items were fraudulent or never existed. THat is a
double standard.
>
>As to Ms. Mead, we were talking about scientists and skepticism, and =
>your reference to Johnny Cochran is a good reason to be skeptical of =
>attorneys.
>
>Again, this is an interesting exercise. As long as we can agree on =
>Christ and his message, the rest is window dressing.
Agreed.
One thing I am sorry to see you didn't comment on was the distribution of
natural radioactive isotopes. I will post the list here. Explain why God
would create the isotopes in this fasion. Notice that these isotopes should
exist if the world is only 7000 years old. THe last column tells you which
ones do exist:
_____________________________________________________________________
Isotope Half?life (yrs) Decay type % natural
occurrence notes
Si?32 650 Beta 0
Cf?251 800 Alpha 0
Tb?158 1,200 Beta,Elect.Captr 0
Bk?247 1,400 Alpha 0
Cm?246 5,500 Alpha, Fission 0
Pu?240 6,500 Alpha, Fission 0
Th?229 7,300 Alpha 0
Am?243 7,300 Alpha 0
Cm?245 9,300 Alpha 0
Cm?250 17,000 Fission 0
Nb?94 20,000 Beta 0
Pu?239 24,000 Alpha, Fission
0
Se?79 65,000 Beta 0
Sn?126 100,000 Beta 0
U?233 160,000 Alpha 0
Tc?99 210,000 Beta 0
Fe?60 300,000 Beta 0
Cl?36 310,000 Beta Electr.Captr 0
Pu?242 380,000 Alpha 0
Cm?248 470,000 Alpha, Fission 0
Al?26 740,000 Positron EC 0
Dy?154 1,000,000 Alpha 0
Zr?93 1,500,000 Beta 0
Tc?98 1,500,000 Beta 0
Gd?150 2,100,000 Alpha 0
Np?237 2,100,000 Alpha 0
Be?10 2,500,000 Beta 0
Pd?107 7,000,000 Beta 0
Hf?182 9,000,000 Beta 0
Cm?147 16,000,000 Alpha 0
I?129 17,000,000 Beta 0
U?236 24,000,000 Alpha Fission 0
Pb?205 30,000,000 Electron Capture 0
Sm?146 70,000,000 Alpha 0
Pu?244 80,000,000 Alpha Fission Trace
U?235 710,000,000 Alpha .72 1
K?40 1,300,000,000 Beta,Pos.,EC
.118
U?238 4,500,000,000 Alpha 99
1
Th?232 14,000,000,000 Alpha 100
2
Lu?176 30,000,000,000 Beta 2.6
Re?187 70,000,000,000 Beta 62.5
Sm?147 100,000,000,000 Alpha 15
La?138 100,000,000,000 Electron Capture .089
Rb?87 500,000,000,000 Beta 28
____________________________________________________________________________
__________
Table 4 Partial list of radioactive isotopes with half lives greater than
450 years. 1. percentage of occurrence taken from The Handbook of Chemistry
and Physics, 47th edition, The Chemical Rubber co., 1966. 2. Percentage of
occurrence taken from H. Semat, Introduction to Atomic and Nuclear Physics,
(New York: Rinehart and Co., 1954), p.528
In another note you said:
>I have yet to see empirical data or even a believable hypothetical model =
>for intermediary forms, or sudden survivable mutations creating one =
>genus from another genus.
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/transit.htm for info on the
details of the fish/amphibian transition
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/micro.htm for pictures of a
very smooth transitional sequence with foraminifera--down at the bottom of
that page. Tell me why you think this isn't a transitional sequence?
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
>
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