Hello Dick,
Thanks for your response.
I wrote: I think it is just as easy for us to explain that the creating of
man in God's image involved giving highly evolved primates moral consciences,
minds that were able to understand spiritual things, and most importantly,
eternal spirits.
You responded: Moral conscience, I don't think so. We learn our moral system
from our culture.
I answered: I think the apostle Paul would disagree with you. In his letter
to the Romans, chapter 2 verses 14 and 15 he wrote, "When Gentiles, who do
not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for
themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the
requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also
bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them."
You responded: Paul is writing to the redeemed of the church. These Romans
were members of the church Paul planted there, and were gentiles.
I think if you read a few Bible commentaries you will find that most
Christian scholars understand Paul's words as I do. God has given all people
moral consciences, the redeemed and the unredeemed.
Matthew Henry wrote: "As many as have sinned without law shall perish without
law." (Rom.2:12) - "That is the unbelieving Gentiles, who had no other guide
but natural conscience."
Eerdmans Bible commentary says, "All are accountable to God for judgment,
whether like the Jews they possess the Mosaic law or, like the Gentiles, the
'natural' law written on the conscience of men who are all made after the
divine image. ... Every man has a conscience, a moral consciousness."
You wrote: I don't pretend to know when God decided to give man a spirit
capable of redemption or condemnation. My point was that if all mankind from
let's say 1 million years ago had this spirit, it would seem pointless to
wait until only 6,000 years ago to give them any means of redemption.
No more pointless than to give all people from the time of Adam "a spirit
capable of redemption or condemnation," if that is what you believe God did.
For from that time forward God has not provided the vast majority of people
"any means of redemption." After all, only a small fraction of people who
have lived since the time of Adam have ever had an opportunity to come to
know the means of salvation God made available to Adam, to his descendants,
and the means of salvation He now makes known in the Christian world.
You wrote: Now there was a time God "winked at" those sins, but to contend
that every mammalian biped with an opposable thumb and a cranial capacity of
1400 - 1600 CCs was given a[n im]mortal soul certainly is without scriptural
support.
You seem to be saying on the one hand that Adam was not the first man, but on
the other hand that he was the first man. For the possession of an immortal
soul is how virtually all theologians define the difference between man and
beast.
You wrote: If we wish to establish a time when all mankind were possessed
with "souls," any time selected is purely arbitrary.
True, but the fact that the Bible does not provide us with a date for the
time God first created man, by then starting to give all highly evolved
primates "souls," does not indicate that He did not at some point in the
distant past do just that. Not any more so anyway than the fact that many,
yourself included, do not believe that the Bible provides us with a date for
the time God created Adam, and then gave him a soul. Yet, without what you
believe to be a firm Bible provided date for God's giving Adam a soul, you
still believe God did so.
You wrote: the only question as far as "souls" is concerned is when man had
them. ... I presume man at 7,000 to 6,000 years ago were so possessed. If
not Adam would have been wasted on them. Why offer them a glimmer of the
hope of salvation if they had nothing to save?
You seem to be saying that God began to give people immortal souls at the
time of Adam because prior to that time people had no one to tell them of the
way God was from then on providing for their salvation. You evidently see
Adam as the one God had intended to use as his messenger to bring His message
of salvation to all men. But,as I understand it, you believe Adam failed to
prove himself worthy of filling the role God had planned for him. If this is
your understanding of Adam I think it is a misunderstanding.
Maybe you have explained this to others here before. But I don't get it. Why
couldn't God use Adam as a sinner to spread His gospel? He uses us.
It seems to me that such an argument (that God began giving all people souls
at the time of Adam) would only be valid if you maintained that, had Adam not
failed, he would have been able to reach people with their newly received
souls who were then living in places like North America and Australia with
his message of salvation. How would he have done that? Or maybe you think God
only then gave souls to people living near Eden.
You wrote: So I would say two things would not make sense to me. I don't
believe God would send Adam into a world where men and animals were no
different.
He didn't.
You wrote: And I don't think God would condemn to hell or welcome into His
heavenly kingdom all the hominids from hundreds of thousands of years who
lived prior to the time of Adam, which is what your methodology seems to
imply.
Why would he not do that if they had been men with souls just like us? If God
began giving highly evolved primates "souls" say 100,000 years ago, how would
His giving those preadamic men souls be any different than His giving souls
to billions of people for thousands of years since the time of Adam who God
has also never given a chance to hear His plan for their salvation? How would
His then having done so be any different than His giving souls to billions of
people living in lands like China and India today who live their whole lives
without ever hearing the gospel?
Jesus said that everyone who has ever lived and died will receive a
resurrection. At that time He said He will judge those He resurrects by their
works. Possibly the way those people lived their lives will provide Christ
with evidence of whether they would have accepted Him if they had had the
chance to do so. I don't know. But it seems to me that God can judge the
souls of preadamic men who never heard the gospel in exactly the same way
that He judges postadamic men who never heard the gospel.
Dick, I've learned a lot from you. And I hope to continue learning from you.
One thing I know. I have never learned anything from a person who thinks
exactly as I do. Because of that I thank God there are people who don't. I
hope you feel the same.
Your brother in Christ,
Mike
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