Re: Lets fight fair.

From: Dick Fischer (dickfischer@earthlink.net)
Date: Fri Apr 12 2002 - 00:38:49 EDT

  • Next message: Walter Hicks: "Re: Lets fight fair."

    James Mahaffy wrote:

    >When I respond to a post of Dick's showing with citation from their
    >books that Behe and Johnson are more upfront in stating their positions
    >that Dick indicated, we get back a post that frankly I think crosses the
    >line on how we should deal with brothers regardless of how strongly we
    >disagree with them.

    I believe there is a time to wash the feet of our brothers, and a time to
    cast out the moneychangers. I don't believe the books and articles
    represent honest mistakes by a fellow brother in Christ. It is a case of
    someone (Johnson, not Behe) deliberately misleading gullible believers to
    the overall detriment and impediment of our gospel message.

    We Christians are in a unique club. Membership buys eternal life, and if
    you decide not to join, you have an eternity to regret it. I'm sorry if I
    see it so black and white, but that is how I understand it. The stakes are
    just too high if I perceive the gospel message correctly, and please
    correct me if you feel I am mistaken. I take correction.

    Evolution happened. Don't blame me, I didn't cause it. We can argue about
    who caused the Big Bang, and I do, and we can argue about the origins of
    life, I do that too, but there are certain facets of Darwin's theory where
    the confirming data is abundant, convincing, and overwhelming.

    There exists a large group of Christians who wish it was not so. There
    also exists a small number of individuals who with cunning words dole out
    false hope - preying on ignorance and gullibility. How should we deal with
    that?

    I stated earlier it was an issue of honesty. As someone never said, "Don't
    cry pig if you're not prepared to eat pork." Here is what I said in the
    book I published six years ago:

    "Even though many Christians endorse evolutionary concepts, some will say
    they cannot accept the notion "we came from monkeys." Even though
    biologists agree we did not come from monkeys, making such a statement of
    adamant denial speaks volumes about one's closed-mindedness. Using the
    words "from monkeys" reveals a commonly held misunderstanding. My brother
    and I share common ancestry. I did not "come from" my brother, nor he from
    me. Although certain animals may be related, this does not mean
    necessarily that one is directly ancestral to the other,

    It is a widely held theory that man shares common ancestors with other
    higher primates. Specifically, biologists consider man and chimpanzee to
    be on the same branch of the phyletic tree with the gorilla branching off
    earlier. This does not mean necessarily that any one of the three
    descended from the others.

    Even though many also disagree with the concept of shared ancestry, at
    least it states the theory more accurately. If the question was simply,
    did man come from monkeys, the short answer is that it appears man did not."

    Recently I mentioned an article by an NIH gene researcher, Edward
    Max. Someone on this list found that Max had an updated article on
    TalkOrigins. (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/molgen) I read it. Guess
    what?

             "In addition, the galactosyltransferase pseudogene present in the
    human genome is
             shared with apes and Old World monkeys (Galili and Swanson, PNAS
    88:7401, 1991)."

    Notice the distinction, "Old World monkeys." In other words, we have
    genetic markers common to African monkeys, but not South American
    monkeys. Why? Well, the monkey family was separated at the breaking up of
    Pangea roughly 200 million years ago. Which in turn implies that monkeys
    divided off the primate line, and that apes and man, dare I say it, branch
    off the monkey line, not that monkeys divided off the primate line to go on
    their merry way before apes evolved, and then man.

    So, I could pull a "Johnson" and keep my big mouth shut, catering to the
    tender sensibilities of good Christian folk, created in the image of
    God. Or I could do what I just did here. Admit to everyone on this list
    that it appears I made a mistake, and as much as it galls me, I'll correct
    it when I do a revision.

    How many recantations have you heard from the ID group as a result of the
    resounding criticisms they have received? Have they not made a single mistake?

    Dick Fischer - The Origins Solution - www.orisol.com
    "The answer we should have known about 150 years ago"



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